30 mile range car for £2k?

Do you own or use a EV. Then this is a good place to discuss things.
sam_uk
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30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby sam_uk » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:40 pm

I like the idea of an electric car. I live about 11 miles from the town I travel to two or three times a week.

For 4 of those miles the traffic travels at about 45 mph. I'd like to get three people in the car.

My understanding is

*A berlingo would do it, but the batteries are no longer available
* A gwiz Ac would do it (just?) but only with two people
* A Aixiam mega city would do it slowly, but it's a horrible car

Is there any other cheap cars I should consider?

Thanks

Sam

sam_uk
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby sam_uk » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:19 pm

not sure how this ended up in sales. sorry. Meant for it to go in general, but I don't seem to be able to move it now.

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Rory166
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby Rory166 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:07 pm

Any destination charging at the town?
Electric Seicento conversion, Leaf

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timpootle
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby timpootle » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:43 am

sam_uk wrote:not sure how this ended up in sales. sorry. Meant for it to go in general, but I don't seem to be able to move it now.

Hello Sam, and welcome. I have moved this thread to somewhere more suitable, although we're not too strict as to what goes where really.

Suggestions for £2k.. umm... how much is the imiev/iOn/czero these days? Too much for you I guess. The C1 Evie perhaps? Are you prepared to look after a one-off oddball conversion, or do you want the security (spares, support) of a production car?
Tim Crumpton

Grumpy-b
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby Grumpy-b » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:31 am

For £2k you are only going to get a low peformance Lead acid vehicle that will probably need a replacement pack in around ayear for 3/4 of what you paid for the car.
You might pick up a decent berlingo, but you have the issue of replacement cells, I have some but supply is dwindling.
I have Citroen C1s with Lifepo4 cells for around £4250, possibly less for a slightly scruffy one.

But for £2k I think you are going to have difficulty. You might as well spend as little as you can and get a Gwiz, they come up for under £1k just about moving, and accept the replacement of cells as almost a two year service requirement.

Nothing in this price range will be chargable from the latest charge points without further expenditure on additional cabling or charge inlets on the car.

Grumpy-b

sam_uk
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby sam_uk » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Hi thanks for the replies.

There are potential charging points in the town, but 30 mile range would make it much more useful for me.

Citroen C1's with lithium sound good, £4k is quite a chunk of money though.. How soon would the batteries need replacing in those? Two or three years? Or might they run for 4-5?

I guess I'd do about 4000 miles a year in it.

<Edit You answered my other question here>
https://speakev.com/threads/citroen-c1-evie.3024/

Thanks

Sam

Grumpy-b
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby Grumpy-b » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:13 pm

Life of Lifepo4 cells is really about how you use them., They quote a life of around 2000 recharges, but thats full charge full discharge, in optimum temperature range. (ie not zero or below) and within the quoted c range.
Thats one of the reasons I would reccomend not over charging or even charge to their potentially highest voltage , but just below. People tend to under spec a battery pack and over expect. Ie go for the smallest pack size and then expect to charge it to its max and discharge as much as possible. Bad news.
On the C1s There are some that have well over 20k on the clock, have been looked after, not abused, and are working well. Others have been over discharged, left uncharged, heavy footed cold usage and are struggling at 3k miles.
A C1 with 10k miles and a fully operational pack is likely to get as much again or more you may have a fault in a cell but that doesnt mean the rest are going to go bad, as long as you respect a reduction in performance and deal with it as soon as possible, not just keep pushing it to the point where other cells get over extended.
Charge often and as warm as possible in cold weather, dont over charge (easy mod) and drive sensibly. ie dont jut stuff your right foot through the floor and wait for something to happen, feed in the power as the car accelerates, and take more effort to anticipate the road, ie dont accelerate, then brake hard to just accelerate again. Think about what you are doing, dont just expect the car to do what you wish. You need a big pack a a big motor to drive like that.

Grumpy-b

sam_uk
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby sam_uk » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:49 pm

Thanks, that's helpful.

So assuming some luck in how the previous owner treated them & a light right foot they could last me five years..

What would be the cost of replacing them? Do you have to buy proprietary batteries? Or could I just order some generic lifepo4's from China?

Would the BMS tie you into that particular chemistry? Or could I potentially replace them with Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide, or whatever exotic chemistry we are using in five years time?

Thanks

Sam

Grumpy-b
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby Grumpy-b » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:10 pm

The cells are Thundersky 160ah, of which I have stock and access to a quantity of cells. They seem to age well and so new old stock lose very little capacity in storage. If the car goes OK and has a decent range then its likley to be OK . If it been out of use for a while then a good month of use should show up any failing cells.
Since many makers of cells are slightly different physical sizes, that limits ad hoc changes, except for whole packs. The controllers can be adjusted, the BMS isnt adjustable for charge of different cells, but I change that control back to the charger being in control and as such the CC end voltage can be set at virtually what ever you want within the scope of the charger. I personally like lifepo4, as its a significantly more robust cell especially in the larger formats. They are also not prone to going up in flames as some chemistries are. In escence the cars have a motor and controller, standard running gear brakes etc, anythibg elese couldl be changed for something else, and the value of the rest retained.

Grumpy-b

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timpootle
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Re: 30 mile range car for £2k?

Postby timpootle » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:22 am

Grumpy has more experience than me, but I think budgeting on a 5 year life is a great under-estimate. 8, 10, 12 year battery life could be expected if you look after them. Or longer? This technology has only been around since 2005, so no-one has a pack older than 10 years to tell us how it is doing.
Tim Crumpton


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