Ping Batteries in cold weather

[ex925]

When reading this, please bear in mind my simple / ignorant approach to these things....
I bought a Ping 36v 20ah pack 2 years back, £350 delivered
It plugged and played so easily, even I could cope
I used it in a Yamaha "Easy" EAPC with the original Panasonic 24v motor and a cheap cheerful Chinese 36v 30amp controller
First twenty runs produced steady increases in range, and in throttle opening before BMS cut-out
Thereafter I was happy with up to 20mph / 20 miles with a little light pedal assistance (I'm quite lazy)
After 2 months of near daily use and abuse, I burned out the motor.
The pack is fine, probably due to the self-protection system, (I like the LEDs a lot, simples.....)
When I get time, I will fit an old 36v motor I have left over from a Chinese scooter
(an earlier version of the one I used in the "Junkyard Dog")
Meantime, I occasionally partially discharge the pack using three headlamp bulbs in series, then re-attach to charger
(Mr. Ping approved this idea, seems to work well, I have load-tested the pack twice, no problems AFAIK)
HTH
All the best, from Ed. in Plymouth

[jonathan jewkes]

regarding your charging lead. I have some Ping batteries, and like you the charger is connected to the pack by some 3-pin connectors. I can confrim that only 2 of the pins are used - the third pin is not connected to anything.

You want to have the charger in the house and so you need a long charging lead. To my mind, you have 2 options. First is just to cut off Ping's plug and socket and wire up some 2-pin connectors of whatever type takes your fancy (so long as they are polarised so that you can't inadvertently reverse the connection).
Second is to buy a Canon plug and socket - easily obtained from Maplin etc - and make up your own extension lead. I found these reasonably easy to solder. In both cases use a length of suitably rated 2-core flex. If it is going outdoors, maybe some nice bright orange flex such as is used for electric garden appliances.

If the charger is indoors, you will be able to see that the battery pack is fully charged because the charger will have switched itself off. There should be a light on the charger to indicate this, also the cooling fan will have stopped whirring.

Jonathan

[ChrisB]

If the charger is indoors, you will be able to see that the battery pack is fully charged because the charger will have switched itself off. There should be a light on the charger to indicate this, also the cooling fan will have stopped whirring.

Jonathan

Ah now this is where I'm of the opinion that this is the reason to be able to see the BMS indicators, now this may be a quirk of just my pack, but I've found that the charger indicator will go from red to green and the cooling fan stops indicating the main charge has finished, HOWEVER I've found it can take a further 30mins to a couple of hours for the pack to fully balance up. Thus if I turned off my charger as soon as the fan stops and the indicator goes green the likely hood is the pack wont be fully balanced

While this isnt a major problem if you did this a few times I could imagine that over time the pack could become very un-balanced

Of course this could be just an oddity of my own pack ??


ChrisB

[ex925]

Good point, my Ping BMS flashes varying patterns on the strip of LCDs when the charger is detached
I checked this by email with Mr. Ping, who advised me that it was the BMS balancing the cells
The first time I charged the pack, this "balancing-phase" took well over an hour before settling to all red
Over the first dozen or so charges, a sort of "running-in" period, the "balancing-time" gradually reduced
In the time I used the pack for propulsion, "balancing-time" settled down to between three and five minutes
After a while, it occurred to me that these balancing-intervals appeared to follow a kind of pattern
The pattern seemed to me to relate approximately to "remaining-voltage" readings before each re-charge
(after a run out, and just before re-connecting the charger)
The pack is presently living on maintenance-charge, with an occasional test followed by a short period off-charge
Balancing takes only a couple of minutes or less
I haven't worried, since Mr. Ping assured me this was a safe procedure until I get round to using it properly again
Also, when using for propulsion, I left the pack on charge overnight, so it had a "green-phase" each charge

HTH
All the best
Ed

PS
I've just filled my 2011 year-planner, each "event" carefully allotted a safety-margin of extra time for "the unexpected"
With family doings, maybe another new hip, holiday, house and car major works, and.... (oh, yes, my main project!!)
I can't guarantee time enough to sort out the EAPC-motor problem and start using the Pin-pack properly this year!
So, if anyone wants a good used 36v dc 20amp Ping-pack + charger, I am open to a reasonable offer
I would be quite happy to see someone else using and enjoying it, and reduce my task-list as well

[Deker]

Yes Ed, I may well be interested.

Im unfamiliar with this product, so my Qs =
1) Can the pack be split into 3 * 12v or 2 * 18v.
2) I assume the charger is set for 36v. Y or N.
and the pack has to be charged as a 36v pack Y/N

If I had a battery pack for my C5 it would give me impetus to reassemble the motor and put the thing to use.

The idea of running at 18v is somewhat appealing.
To run the C5 at 36v would need a doubling of the original motor to wheel ratio.
I should be able to that.

I would be using PWM control, not Clives ON/OFF switch.

How much you thinking of Ed

Deker

[ChrisB]

Deker , I've answered some of your questions in Red

Yes Ed, I may well be interested.

Im unfamiliar with this product, so my Qs =
1) Can the pack be split into 3 * 12v or 2 * 18v. NOT REALLY, its a sort of sealed 36v pack
2) I assume the charger is set for 36v. Y or N.
and the pack has to be charged as a 36v pack Y/N
The Charger is matched to the pack and the bms, its plug and play

More details of the pack can be found here

Specifications:
Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 800 Watt, 500 Watt suggested
Applications: E-Bike, Electric Bike, E-Scooter, Electric Scooter
Voltage: 36 Volts
Capacity: 20 Amp Hours
Dimension: 300x105x150 mm / 11.8x4.1x5.9 inches
Weight: 7.5 kg / 16.5 lbs
Charging Voltage: 45-46 Volts
Charging Current: <5 Amps
Rated Discharging Amperage: 20 Amps
Max Continuous Discharging Amperage: 40 Amps
Maximum Discharging Current: 60 Amps
Discharging Cut-off Protection: 40-50 Amps
Lifecycle of the whole pack: >85% capacity after 1000 cycles. Lifecycle of single cell: >85% capacity after 1500 cycles, >70% capacity after 3000 cycles. (<1C discharge rate and <1C charge rate)

Taken from here http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the- ... PO4/Detail

Ed if they arnt what deker needs then I'll gladly take them as I have 36v electric bike with no batteries at the moment

ChrisB

[ex925]

Hi, guys, thanks for all the effort on specification, much more reliable than my vague guesses
(which is why I try to say only things I feel sure of, but which are thus, well, a bit simple)
I would be very happy to see the Ping-pack/BMS and charger being put to a proper use
I am not sure how much to ask for them, but here is my first guess, and my reasons why.....

Original cost inc. shipping £340 Delete shipping, say £300?
Been used, though not for long Say 2/3, £200
Take off a bit more for the following factors:
1 Initially the BMS cut out the Ping-pack at lower throttle-amps than I expected, but, steadily got better
2 I was using a 36v.dc (80amp? "MOSFET"?) controller and electronic throttle, [worked with the previous SLAs]
3 I guess 80amp because it took an 80amp fuse [using SLAs only] to get full power to the motor
4 When the Ping-pack finally settled down, it was with a 50-amp fuse on the Yamaha "Easy" EAPC
5 Thus, I can only make a guess, that the "Easy" drew less amps than the "Junkyard Dog"
6 On the "Easy", I could occasionally make the BMS cut out on very steep hills, for about a minute
7 Notes: the "Dog" had 8-speed wide-ratio hub gears, the "Easy" had only 4, normal ratio, and I'm very throttle-happy
8 The Ping-pack has been on maintenance charge for over a year, with occasional tests
SO.............
a] I'll guess at £150?
b] Is that reasonable?
c] With the following sort of safeguard
d] If it doesn't perform reasonably, I will refund the purchase money, but not postage, (if any)
e] I think that's fair but I'm open to any kind of comments, what do you guys think?
All the best
Ed

[ChrisB]

Put me down for a definate Ed, cheque/cash/bank transfer available on your approval.

Quite happy with the price and the fact its 20ah means it will also match my 24v 20ah pack quite nicely if I ever joined them up

But as Deker gave the heads up first and as a gentleman myself, I bow to him being first in the queue

ChrisB

[ex925]

Thanks, Chris, rapid response much appreciated
Looking forward to your decision, Derek
I hope to use the cash next month
"Ceteris Parebus" of course
All the best
Ed

[ex925]

Er, Chris, (and always remembering how vastly much I don't know about all this.....)
I asked the excellent Mr. Ping about using this 36v pack in series for 72v.dc
He said best in parallel, (because of main cable gauge, I think?)
Does a similar, (lesser?), constraint apply, 24v+36v?
(Just my tuppence worth.....)
All the best
Ed