Converting a Blingo to Lithium

[Grumpy-b]

My two Berlingos are failing fast, the SAFT cells are growing more feeble with age, and regularly fail, and my spares are getting less usable. We are now down to about a 25 mile safe journey length. That still works as our daily work is 20 miles and we can charge there. We both use a separate vehicle each day. Other usage is seriously curtailed. We still do about 10000 miles per year on each vehicle.
So time has come to consider some lithium cells.
My first thoughts were, thats a lot of cash. So I have attempted to understand what the costs of running a vehicle of similar size would be compared to the savings we could make by running electric.
We already have a Partner Combi HDI, but we would need a second vehicle what ever we do. The Partner acts as a back up, and we are happy to have two Evs and the one ICE vehicle.
As an Electric Vehicle user, you either have to accept that it will have a significant capital investment, or do it on the cheap, as most of us with Berlingos have been doing for years. Practical daily transport requires a certain level of reliability and service availability that many conversions don’t have owing to the low investment value we often put into them.
If I could consider it I would for the sake of reliability buy a Leaf or MIEV, but that’s a challenge, and frankly not a good investment.

I have compiled a spreadsheet, which I will edit and put up here. It uses information on the miles per year, charge costs, costs of a diesel vehicle and fuel costs and MPG, as well as loads of stuff on cell number, cell AH, cost / ah size of cell Weight saving etc etc. You can change lost s of parameters and see at the end how much you will either save or spend over the cost of having a low value ICE vehicle.
We have worked on a 5 year lifecycle and the aim was to understand the costs and advantages of a Lithium conversion.

There is no such thing as a standard Chinese Lithium cell, they all have slightly different voltages, chemicals and different mixes of cell capacities that they make. So it will always be a compromise.
If we just wish to have a similar spec to the std Berlingo then the 100ah CALB is probably the best bet, especially the new CA series. You can get cheaper, but not by much. 100ah are short enough to fit in the std Berlingo Battery cases. A big bonus. In addition the Van would be about 10% lighter than standard, so achieving a 50+ mile range is very reasonable. From here the costs increase, by +30% for the 130ah, +60% for the 160Ah etc etc. With the 180AH you could readily expect well over a 100mile range. But on the plus side the other costs of conversion, electronics etc stay the same.
Also what voltage / series number of cells to go for, again different makes have slightly different values, and you could go from about 52 to 55 in number.
Lots to consider.
Then its the conversion of the electronics, do you buy an of the shelf BMS and charger or use a conversion of the std. Yet more decisions.
What you have to decide is what you expect from the conversion, ie a fully usable vehicle capable of 10k+ per annum or something you just want to occasionally use and almost use as a moving test bed, but basically a vehicle for your pleasure and anguish.

Personally I want a reliable vehicle and I want it now. So that rules out a long term development using A123 P20ah Prismatics, or Kokam Pouches, or thousands of single cells. All of which could be great fun to do but a serious load of work. Others will be looking for something else from their project. Tim Wanted a long range vehicle and that’s great, but I don’t need that, I do need to be able to get to work reliably, Ideally I want to have a range of over 50miles that would increase my usage of an EV. But what I don’t intend to do is spend so much cash that I have to wait a long time to afford it. I want my conversion done dusted and in use as soon as possible.
This is all part of the compromise.

Over the next few months I will update this as we progress, its going to be my Multispace that we convert, as my Blingo has now failed (see separate post).
This will give us a multi use vehicle that’s shown to be capable of taking 5 adults. Or three of us and enough stuff or our Holiday, or space enough for our regular wood collection for our winter fuel supply. In all a really usable vehicle.

Grumpy-b

[Grumpy-b]

This is not totally exhaustive and Im sure others would do this differently. Please change it as you see fit.

This spreadsheet has a number of fields that are bold, these are for entry values to be changed . Others are calculated.

The first part sets your pattern of usage , miles per year, any savings from part charging at work etc. Off peak chargeing etc

The next part deals with the conversion
AH size, cost in dollars /ah, number in parallel and series. To the right deals with the dolar conversion rate.

If you wish to enter the weight of the cells it will tell you what the weight saving is, it uses the numbe rof cells you have already entered.(approximately)
The bottom section looks at the cost of an additional car then attempts to work a cost of the difference over the number of years you have set at the top.

Play with it, change it suggest changes.

Grumpy-b

[highend]

conversion to lithium is a very interesting topic. And I can tell that I know nothing (yet) how to do that.
I currently convert diesel Multispace berlingo to electric Berlingo - I sacrifice one Berlingo Electrique Van for that. Which is more to consider - I would like to go to lithium 180Ah for over 100 Miles range

Step by step conversion guide will be much appreciated

[highend]

What I understand to covert Berlingo to lithium we need

50pcs of CALB 3.2V 100Ah To make 160V nominal voltage
Weight will be around 160kg so half of nicads

Price of that set brand new will be around $6500 plus shipping

Also we need BMS and charger or use onboard charger?

Please correct me if I'm wrong....

[Grumpy-b]

You need at least 162v worth of cells, but there is no point in having a low voltage. The std SAFTS start at about 175v, so 55 at 3.2 v gives 176. A much better proposal. Also a higher overall Power store so a slightly higher range. Higher voltage will give a better performance, the DC motor really drops off in performance as the voltage drops. Higher Voltage also means less current for the same power consumption. I like less current, I like higher voltages.
I have just checked with the size of the 100AH ca series CALB, which is virtually the same as Thundersky etc, and with no modifications to the standard berlingo battery cases (May need some of the blocks on the top half that rest on the SAFT top surface removing) you can get strapped packs of 5 in 5 rows front to back in the Centre pack, and packs of 3 in rows of 5 in the front and back Battery cases making a total of 55.
The 100ah is small enough in height to fit. Anything else ie 130ah and above will not fit in without altering the height of the Standard Berlingo Battey cases. The Cells should not be laid on their sides.
BMS, Charger, etc is open to a number of options.
I would like to use the standard charger and so will be getting Evan to Modify mine to work with his BMS.
I am also going to explore the use of a second charger to shorten recharge time.

There are other Options such as the one Tim used on his long range Blingo. Each solution has its advantages and disadvantages.
Grumpy-b

[flaninacupboard]

Have you seen CATHI?

http://sycomoreen.free.fr/syco_CATHI_FAQ.html

The addition of 2x4kwh Enginer systems would add ~40 miles of range, giving you a total of about 65. The kits include chargers and BMS, so no worries there, as far as I can tell the connection to the Berlingo is just one direct DC connection through the current sensor, so the van sees the ~8kw of power from the two kits as regen current, and keeps the Nicads SOC up. You get good power form the Nicads (8kwh of lithium would not supply enough power) and good energy from the lithium (8kwh is quite compact still). Total cost for the two kits after import duty, VAT etc would be about £4k. If 8kwh is not enough you could do a custom system, but you would want at least two full kits for speed of charge and current delivered (one kit would only supply a constant 4kw, not enough unless you're doing low speed urban drving only).

[Grumpy-b]

This topic is about dealing with the problem of lack of usable Nicads, ending up with Berlingo Electriques being scrapped because of lack of usable battery systems. Its not about extending range or building a Hybrid, all of which could make a great new Thread. So please do start one as there may be many people who may be interested in such a build. None of the original generator equiped vehicles made it to the UK. The original design also dropped the battery pack voltage down to 120V to get space in the engine bay for the Lombardini engine and alternators.

Grumpy-b

[flaninacupboard]

Sorry Grumpy, I was just suggesting that as an alternative to achieving your same objective (a reliable 50+ mile range) at a lower cost and with considerably less effort/complexity. The reduced power draw from the Nicads and reduced DOD would also greatly extend their remaining lifespan. In fact so long as you're travelling significantly under the 65 miles total range you could forego recharging the nicad pack, and only recharge the lithium packs, just keeping an eye on the SOC of the nicad pack to leave it in a happy region (I believe this would be around 60%)

[highend]

The Cells should not be laid on their sides.

Why not? in LiFePO4 there are no liquids....?

Also TIM got 51 pcs in 51s3p pack - which I understand is 51pcs total in parallel with another 51pcs and another string.. correct?

so 51pcs = 163.2 Volts 200Ah + 200Ah + 200Ah totaling - 163.2V 600Ah
where he did fit them all? and how?

He has now a range like most expensive version of TESLA MODEL S (about 300 miles)

[Grumpy-b]

Many do have a liquid in them, its generally an oil and acts to ensure a thermal contact between the battery components and the case. The vent has to be able to let go in case of high temp/ internal pressure. If laid on the side the liquid wont be in the right place on the internal components which can also cause thermal inbalance to the cell , and the vent could be covered. This could lead to unexpected cell splitting. Pouches / Prismatics like Kokam or A123 have no problems the same with Cylinders (or where they are built into packs). If the manufacturers state how they should be used, Im happy to take their guidance. Especially when spending a lot of cash on them.

Tim has his batteries spread all through his Van especially in the back, so at least his weight is spread fairly evenly.
WIth 600AH his voltage is unlikely to sag much at all. WIth 100ah it will so take advantage of the normal Blingo system voltage after charge, and get more stored power.

Grumpy-b