Converting a Blingo to Lithium

[genawin]

"If laid on the side the liquid wont be in the right place on the internal components which can also cause thermal inbalance to the cell , and the vent could be covered. This could lead to unexpected cell splitting"

In most cases i'm sure your right - but there can be exceptions , I approached China Hi-power with my design and they approved it before i placed my order : http://evalbum.com/4157

"I would like to use the standard charger and so will be getting Evan to Modify mine to work with his BMS."

I would like to do exactly the above with my stybrook BMS please ask Evan if it's possible as i haven't had a response to my last couple of emails ?

[Grumpy-b]

Like you I checked first. I dont see any point in spending a lot of money and then abusing the design from day one. I would hope that if I have a problem with them that I could get some support from the makers. Are Hipower made from a number of cylindrical cells in the Prismatic case? If so then how they are oriented wont matter.

Do contact Evan again, I only ever contact him on Berlingo stuff I think they keep him busy.

With the layout of cells in the existing Berlingo Battery boxes, the ends of the large Middle box with cells along the side wouldnt have been used. I am considering using 4 of a smaller size, to replace my 12v Aux battery. Why? save some weight but also clear some extra space in the engine bay. When I built the Multispace I had intended to add a generator, and so shifted the Power pump steering behind the MK2 bumper, its worked fine for a couple of years so far. If I do this now it makes other changes later on simpler.

Grumpy-b

[genawin]

The cells in my bike are standard prismatic but they don't need to be clamped so maybe thier allowed to expand and contract to help prevent bursting

I hope this might give a few ideas :

resized.3.jpg (98.52 KiB) Viewed 10664 times

Fitted a 054 battery cut / rewelded the header tank moved the controller back , the webasto forward / sideways(changed to oil one) , radiator sideways circulation pump back , This is the original front box moved forward with a semi see through top removable cover to monitor charging led's.
(still can't find where the battery thermister connects to harness ?)

[Grumpy-b]

With regard to Thundersky/ WInson cells and laying on their side, I had the follwoing back.

Thank you for your question about our battery. We would like to explain to you as below;

Our battery is designed to be vertically placed on the ground. As you know, it might be a slight leakage of the battery liquid inside from the polarity when the overchage happens accidentally. If the battery is laid down, the leakage of the liquid would happened with great possibility because of its own weight.

The battery liquid will erode the polarity after the leakage. The battery will be in a danger of short circuit at this time which is absolutedly prohibited for a battery

So it looks like some leakage could occur when over charged/ pressured and that the liquid could erode the connectionpost and cause some short circuiting, in extreme circumstances. The pressure of the cells upon each other could also cause increased pressure above that of strapping.

Food for thought.

Grumpy-b

[Beemer]

Err, Mr. Grumpy,
If ever you inflate Lithium cells then your duty of care has failed with a bad charger or low SOC care.. They, (or it) has been forced into over or under charge and/or allowed to be cooked from external means. It is that simple.

The electrolyte is the most expensive and central part of the cell. Not merely an oil and nothing to do with thermal. These cells are ok in any position apart from inverted. The manufacturers tell you it is. I know of a car with these in the same side up position for well over 18 months that delivers 1000 Amps with absolutely no issues.

As goes building block cells. I hear one guy is attempting to get Sinopoly back into the exporting business. The only ones we can actually obtain now are GBS and CALB.

CALB's new CA series show better characteristics throughout the whole envelope which give my 20AH, A123's advantages a big run for their money.

Pouch cells are a massive pain in the butt. I know this! If you wish to use these, then I have a whip to sell you.

[Grumpy-b]

Abuse isnt the only point, of course any sane person wouldnt wantonly abuse many thousnds of £ worth of investment by overcharging them or over discharging them. I take it for granted peole understand that. So how about If for whatever reason the cells get pressurised. Then cells that are laid on their side (According to Winston) can leak from being pressured around the terminals. If upright they can relatively simply vent from the air (or whatever gas is in there) and not push the liquid out (whatever it is). Just commenting on what WInston have said. Not my words in the previous post. I had assumed that since Winston were the Manufacturers that they would give me the advice on their products. I bow to your superior knowledge that the Manufacturers are clearly wrong about their product. I now regret asking them for their opinion, since I will now have to ignore their advice, and the same advice from CALB, who I must now presume know less about their products than you as well.
EV TV have had a number of the CALB Cells swell as a result of not being used but as a result of being in a hot car. Laid on their side problems could presumably have occured.
Personally I would rather follow the manufacturers guidance. However I now own vehicles with Thumderskys placed on the side. They perform well. They are not over charged and they are not overdischarged.
I will respect your views but I will repsct those of manufacturers, more. Perhaps you can respect others views and others attempts to get information more graciously.

Grumpy-b

[Beemer]

Professor Winston is no more. Sinopoly have ousted him completely and the Chinese Gov't want to question him regarding money. His exercise on his Balqon enterprise has fallen down the pan. They would not sell to the little people, instead thought they could sell to and be an OEM supplier.

It's blue CALB SE's that are laid edge up in that car (EVTV's "Redux") and do not leak, swell or anything.

The more people learn about these cells, the more they know there is no point in overcharging them, top balancing them and *not* bottom balancing them from the outset.

Doing a "Tim" for 167V of 180Ah cells and a separate charger made for lithium cells charging to 3.5~3.55V@0.05C is all you need. I only wish I bought Tim's spare van

"EV TV have had a number of the CALB Cells swell as a result of not being used but as a result of being in a hot car.".
CALB's temperature data is on the CALB page where I summarised the delivered data:

Temperature ranges
Cool the cells at 40°C
Reduce power at 50°C
Kill the pack at 55°C
Range 5°C to 45°C
Never charge at 0°C or below.

[Remundo]

Hi everybody

I'm new on this forum, I'm Remundo of Sycomoreen, some precisions about the post of Flaninacupboard

Have you seen CATHI?

http://sycomoreen.free.fr/syco_CATHI_FAQ.html

The addition of 2x4kwh Enginer systems would add ~40 miles of range

It gives about 40 km additional, not 40 miles.

The kits include chargers and BMS, so no worries there, as far as I can tell the connection to the Berlingo is just one direct DC connection through the current sensor, so the van sees the ~8kw of power from the two kits as regen current

That's right. The both chargers are needing 11A/220V together, the half for only one. The PWM AC/DC suplies make an apparent capacitive load, cos(phi) isn't very good (about 0.7).

It is better to consume the power from Lithium directly while rolling and not to put it inside Nicad and driving after : there are up to 25% of energy losses in this way.

Even with 2 packs of 4 kWh, the total power sent to the motor is about 5000 W (and less with the decrease of Nicad's DC voltage, as it works with constant current 2 x 14A), and it is quite weak to move the heavy Berlingo. The energy must be completed by the Nicad's power to get normal speeds and accelerations.

If the Nicad pack is not totally dead, it can be a solution to extend the use of an old electric Berlingo. Moreover, it gives some security at the end of discharge for the Nicad ; for example to go back at home.

A total conversion to Lithium is possible, but a bit more ambitious. Some people have already tried it, but finding good batteries and installing a reliable BMS are such a challenge.

Best regards.