Failure to start
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:55 am
Hi all,
Looking for some advice and suggestions.
Berlingo regularly refuses to start at the beginning of the day. The fault is much worse after it has been charged and it can be a couple of days before I can get it to start. If I can get it to start in the morning it’s generally completely fine for the rest of the day.
History: pretty much since I had the van, about the 4th day, every so often I’d turn the key and no ‘clunk’. Problem worse at the start of the day when it could take 2-3 goes. Usually started if I counted to 60 and tried again. It always started eventually.
I changed the LV battery in October and for a month the fault pretty much went away entirely. Started creeping back end of November and has got much worse over the last 10 days or so. When I recharge the van, I can’t start it again for a day or two. When I do get it started it will play up a couple of times thereafter but always start eventually. But when I charge it up again it’s a pig to start afterwards.
The suspects:
* The low voltage battery
Has to be prime suspect since when the battery was changed the fault largely went away…. until it came back. The battery is currently reading 12.8v on my Maplins multimeter, which seems low, 14.5v when the ‘ignition’ is on but it’s not starting.
I’ve tried charging the battery to raise the voltage but my ‘intelligent’ battery charger thinks it /is/ charged and stops charging it. Must get stupider battery charger.
The fact that it’s fine after being driven around a bit implies that something is happening to improve the situation while I’m driving around. I’m obviously thinking “LV charging”.
I left the ignition on for about an hour to raise the LV resting voltage, which it did, to 13.4 for a while, but still no start. Interestingly, 24 hour later the LV battery had dropped to 12.75, the number it seems to generally hang around at.
To do:
Remember to check the LV battery voltage during the day after it’s been driven around a bit.
Bring the spare boat battery home and parallel it, see what that does to the voltage, and to the ‘clunk’ factor. Big query: will I potentially knacker anything on the Berlingo electronics by adding a second battery in parallel?
* Fault in the key switch
A ChrisB suggestion in the last thread (Berlingo fan stays on, which morphed into a brief discussion on the occasional ‘no clunk’ situation).
To do:
Access key switch, check voltage and continuity of ‘start’ circuit.
* Resistance in the LV side of the relay circuit
I don’t know where the relay is and haven’t followed the cables to find out yet. When I do I’ll test for continuity.
* Short in the LV side of the relay circuit
When I do turn the key it does seem to take a fair bit of electricity. The radio goes off as does the cabin ventilation fan. The lights on the dash dim. I don’t know if this is normal behaviour – the LV auxiliary circuit being disconnected by the key switch when it’s turned to ‘start’ position (anyone know?) or whether it’s a symptom of heavy battery drain. If it’s the latter is that normal for these relays? I wouldn’t have thought so.
* Sticky relay
I guess the relay itself could be faulty requiring higher than normal power to shift it. Don’t know where it is to examine it, or to see if I can clunk it with a direct connection bypassing the ignition wiring. Anyone?
* Gear selector interrupt fault
I don’t know what the name of the thing that prevents the vehicle being started when Drive or Reverse is selected. But not knowing its name isn’t stopping me from wondering if it’s interfering.
* Something else
Can’t think what though. Anyone any ideas?
Finally, I’m completely lost in France over the ‘won’t start after charging’ aspect. Does anyone know what happens or doesn’t happen during charging the traction batteries that could compromise some part of the starting system?
Any advice or ideas much appreciated.
Cheers,
Evan
Looking for some advice and suggestions.
Berlingo regularly refuses to start at the beginning of the day. The fault is much worse after it has been charged and it can be a couple of days before I can get it to start. If I can get it to start in the morning it’s generally completely fine for the rest of the day.
History: pretty much since I had the van, about the 4th day, every so often I’d turn the key and no ‘clunk’. Problem worse at the start of the day when it could take 2-3 goes. Usually started if I counted to 60 and tried again. It always started eventually.
I changed the LV battery in October and for a month the fault pretty much went away entirely. Started creeping back end of November and has got much worse over the last 10 days or so. When I recharge the van, I can’t start it again for a day or two. When I do get it started it will play up a couple of times thereafter but always start eventually. But when I charge it up again it’s a pig to start afterwards.
The suspects:
* The low voltage battery
Has to be prime suspect since when the battery was changed the fault largely went away…. until it came back. The battery is currently reading 12.8v on my Maplins multimeter, which seems low, 14.5v when the ‘ignition’ is on but it’s not starting.
I’ve tried charging the battery to raise the voltage but my ‘intelligent’ battery charger thinks it /is/ charged and stops charging it. Must get stupider battery charger.
The fact that it’s fine after being driven around a bit implies that something is happening to improve the situation while I’m driving around. I’m obviously thinking “LV charging”.
I left the ignition on for about an hour to raise the LV resting voltage, which it did, to 13.4 for a while, but still no start. Interestingly, 24 hour later the LV battery had dropped to 12.75, the number it seems to generally hang around at.
To do:
Remember to check the LV battery voltage during the day after it’s been driven around a bit.
Bring the spare boat battery home and parallel it, see what that does to the voltage, and to the ‘clunk’ factor. Big query: will I potentially knacker anything on the Berlingo electronics by adding a second battery in parallel?
* Fault in the key switch
A ChrisB suggestion in the last thread (Berlingo fan stays on, which morphed into a brief discussion on the occasional ‘no clunk’ situation).
To do:
Access key switch, check voltage and continuity of ‘start’ circuit.
* Resistance in the LV side of the relay circuit
I don’t know where the relay is and haven’t followed the cables to find out yet. When I do I’ll test for continuity.
* Short in the LV side of the relay circuit
When I do turn the key it does seem to take a fair bit of electricity. The radio goes off as does the cabin ventilation fan. The lights on the dash dim. I don’t know if this is normal behaviour – the LV auxiliary circuit being disconnected by the key switch when it’s turned to ‘start’ position (anyone know?) or whether it’s a symptom of heavy battery drain. If it’s the latter is that normal for these relays? I wouldn’t have thought so.
* Sticky relay
I guess the relay itself could be faulty requiring higher than normal power to shift it. Don’t know where it is to examine it, or to see if I can clunk it with a direct connection bypassing the ignition wiring. Anyone?
* Gear selector interrupt fault
I don’t know what the name of the thing that prevents the vehicle being started when Drive or Reverse is selected. But not knowing its name isn’t stopping me from wondering if it’s interfering.
* Something else
Can’t think what though. Anyone any ideas?
Finally, I’m completely lost in France over the ‘won’t start after charging’ aspect. Does anyone know what happens or doesn’t happen during charging the traction batteries that could compromise some part of the starting system?
Any advice or ideas much appreciated.
Cheers,
Evan