abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

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techmind
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby techmind » Sat May 30, 2015 3:29 pm

here in denmark a known error is that the CAn bus simulation to the ABS controller is made by the curtis 1238 motorcontroller.

However a transistor in the curtis controller burns of, and abs / vcs lamps in the instruments is permanetly on and the abs don't work. until a simulator is connected that send somthing out on the can bus til simulate the original motor controller in the fossil version

Do you have a standalone can bus simulator in UK for this?

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby Grumpy-b » Sun May 31, 2015 7:25 pm

There is no can bus used on the UK cars at all. ABS does not use it. CAN was only used on the european versions where the Stability control was used. I will see if I can find out what was used to intiate this on the C1.

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby Grumpy-b » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:14 pm

The CANBus was only used to give the ESP some data to allow it to function. This is in the code of the UK versions of the car / curtis controller but CAN is not turned on.
I am awaiting a comment back from Curtis as to what their options could be. Its hard to understand what is happening, as no significant current is flowing and simple data packets are sent across the CAN Bus. It would be good to understand how/what load is being imposed on the circuit to cause a component failure.
You could use an Arduino to send the messages, but they are not very robust in live automotive use and would probably not last very long. There are some buffered and better made Can bus shields that could be OK.
From the curtis controller data, what OS and what VCL versions do you have?
Is your controller a 1238 6501 or 7501?

Regards

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:12 am

Curtis have a fixed cost system on repairs, and a repaired unit (unless fully destroyed and un repairable) would cost around £500 + carriage costs. Contact Curtis
this is the curtis site for you
http://curtisab.se/
Or I can get the repair done in the UK.
There must however be some issue with the CAN Bus , as it should not be dealing with any level of current, its a simple data signal. Is the termination good. The Can bus has to have a 120r terminating resistor. on pins 21 to 34. is this ok?
ALternatively set up an arduino with a hardened Canbus to transmit the signals. I do have the data text that is sent from the Curtis controller VCL.

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:54 am

Comment from Curtis Technical chap.

The CANbus failures are often caused by removal of a battery negative. The current is then sourced from the CAN lines which still connects various components.

BMS CAN systems are often referenced to the traction HV battery and other CAN components may be referenced to the 12V. Removing a negative as some BMS systems do if they detect a fault can be fatal.

It’s best to use a CAN isolator on the HV end.

techmind
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby techmind » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:15 pm

hey,

thanks for the answers, very usefull information ;)


Then i think it might be some vcs code that need to be simulated. I heard that i should simulate rpm, but i haven't tried yet.

Sounds like a logic explanation, that curtis ports burns, when B- is removed. Most of the danish car has this problem, Choose EV (they had the service on the cars) made a simulator, i bought one of them, but it don't work, nothing comes out of the box.

I all ready have a new extra 1238 6501 controller with vcl, but it is not configured for the car yet, and think the best way around this problem will be to make some measurements on a similar fossil car, and diagnose the codes send on the can bus. (and the simulate that)

I am planing to use this shield and a arduino uno: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10039

I will mount it inside the car in a ip65 prof box. Do you think it will work?

thanks,
best regards
michael pedersen

techmind
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby techmind » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:21 pm

Code: Select all

There must however be some issue with the CAN Bus , as it should not be dealing with any level of current, its a simple data signal. Is the termination good.
The Can bus has to have a 120r terminating resistor. on pins 21 to 34. is this ok?
ALternatively set up an arduino with a hardened Canbus to transmit the signals. I do have the data text that is sent from the Curtis controller VCL.


The 120r resistor is okay, I had a fault with the 12 volt shield connection last year, the cars 12 volt installations behaved very strange, but i fixed it, can't remember i the fault started there.

I would be happy to get look into the data text that is sent from the Curtis controller VCL if you will release it?

best regards
michael pedersen

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby Grumpy-b » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:47 pm

What you need is a can isolator between the car systems and the Curtis or whatever can you are going to use, or the same thing will happen again. Most Can shields are not isolated and not I will have a look in the VCL file and see what can be extracted.

techmind
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby techmind » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:25 pm

Hey,

Sound like i should find a opto isolated can bus interface, will try search for it. If i do some testing with the unisolatet arduino shield, and i find out how to make it work right, i can migrate to the isolated version to long lasting solution. I already have a unisolated awayable for testing.

Thanks, i will appreciate any pieces of vcl code that you can find ;)

Best regards
Michael

techmind
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: abs vcs controller - CAN bus simulator

Postby techmind » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:10 pm

Hey, problem solved ;)

The ESP controller was defective, and stopped the can bus. After disconnecting the defective controller, there is data communication on the can bus again, and the simulator box i bought, began sending CAN pid's.

So i found a used ESP controller, replaced the defective, and now the ABS, VCS(ESP) works again ;)

Thanks for your info, they helped me to the next step :)

I made a post about the solution here:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftechmind.dk%2Fcitroen-c1-evie-elbil%2Ferfaringer%2Fesp-controller-defekt-abs-og-vcs-lamper-lyset-konstant-og-en-mere-alvorlig-boernesygdom%2F&edit-text=

And i will make a open source CAN bus Receiver for other who have a interest in what's going on at the CAN bus.
Also i will make a ESP/ABS CAN simulator for Danish version of the C1 EVie

/ michael


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