My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

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ChrisB
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My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:39 am

Well I've finally got my EVT4000e (orginally owned by GeekyGrilli ) on the MOT'd and on the road 8)

Currently running it on a set of tired four ex UPS SLA 38Ah 12v batteries but it seems to perform not too bad on them, next stop is to try a Li-ion it up.

So the question has to be which way to go, I could go the easy route and order up a set of 30ah LiFePO4's from Ping which look as though they will be around £650 mark, but I'm not sure if this is the best route :?

Certainly its the easy peasy option as they come with BMS and a charger and they would drop straight in a couple of connections and away I go 8)
I've got to take some amp readings just to see what it uses while going along to find out if a 30ah set would be ok but I am concerned that they wont be man enough as I've seen 100Amps plus from my meter just riding about in the garden.

What other options have I open to me before go plunging into a set of ping LiFePO4's

My one concern with a fully DIY option is all the BMS malarky if I get individual cells etc

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

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Jeremy
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby Jeremy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:20 pm

Personally I think that a Ping pack will struggle trying to drive a scooter. The peak current will probably be over the BMS limit and may cause a few shutdowns. If you don't want to faff about building a BMS, you could just try buying one off the shelf. There are a few around now, ranging from the budget Signalab ones to some quite expensive options.

As for cells, then the budget option would probably be Headway, Thundersky or Sky Energy cells, depending on how much room you have. All would probably be cheaper than a Ping pack, in terms of performance-per-£. You could also look at going down the A123 route. Paul (a.k.a. 'cellman', the English chap living in China) is selling A123 packs for a good price, check his 'for sale' thread here in ES: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=19717.

A word of caution when looking at vendors. There was a big group buy of cells organised by a chap called James Morrison that went horribly wrong (it seems he kept all the money, bought himself a Tesla and didn't give people the cells they'd paid for). Since then another company has sprung up, initially registered by James Morrison, that seems to be selling off the cells that those in the group buy paid for but didn't get. I'd treat anyone called 'zachman' or any company based around the EV Components location in Washington State with suspicion unless you can positively prove they are OK (BTW, Manzanita, run by Travis Gintz ('Frodus') is OK and a good guy to deal with - he got burned by Morrison and has since set up his own company).

Jeremy

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retepsnikrep
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby retepsnikrep » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:22 pm

You could buy my 48 genuine 8ah lifebatt cells and have three in parallel for a 14.5kg 52v x 24ah setup. See my post in the for sale section!

A single cell will do 200A discharge so 3 in parallel gives 600A :shock:

Seems to be right for your budget as well! and includes my own BMS 8)

I'll even throw in a modded 48v 150w psu as a potential 2-3A charger. :wink:
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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ChrisB
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:01 pm

Jeremy wrote:Personally I think that a Ping pack will struggle trying to drive a scooter. The peak current will probably be over the BMS limit and may cause a few shutdowns. If you don't want to faff about building a BMS, you could just try buying one off the shelf. There are a few around now, ranging from the budget Signalab ones to some quite expensive options.

As for cells, then the budget option would probably be Headway, Thundersky or Sky Energy cells, depending on how much room you have. All would probably be cheaper than a Ping pack, in terms of performance-per-£. You could also look at going down the A123 route. Paul (a.k.a. 'cellman', the English chap living in China) is selling A123 packs for a good price, check his 'for sale' thread here in ES: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=19717.

A word of caution when looking at vendors. There was a big group buy of cells organised by a chap called James Morrison that went horribly wrong (it seems he kept all the money, bought himself a Tesla and didn't give people the cells they'd paid for). Since then another company has sprung up, initially registered by James Morrison, that seems to be selling off the cells that those in the group buy paid for but didn't get. I'd treat anyone called 'zachman' or any company based around the EV Components location in Washington State with suspicion unless you can positively prove they are OK (BTW, Manzanita, run by Travis Gintz ('Frodus') is OK and a good guy to deal with - he got burned by Morrison and has since set up his own company).

Jeremy


Thanks for the heads up Jeremy, I'd always be very warey of any group buy type thing, only went for the ping ones as others had used them and hadnt had problems.

I'll look into those options, room wise I've got a fair amount as you can imagine once you remove 4 x 37ah SLA 12volts from under the seat 8)

ChrisB
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ChrisB
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:03 pm

retepsnikrep wrote:You could buy my 48 genuine 8ah lifebatt cells and have three in parallel for a 14.5kg 52v x 24ah setup. See my post in the for sale section!

A single cell will do 200A discharge so 3 in parallel gives 600A :shock:

Seems to be right for your budget as well! and includes my own BMS 8)

I'll even throw in a modded 48v 150w psu as a potential 2-3A charger. :wink:


I saw those but didnt think they would be good enough for my rig :?

I'll revisit that thread :wink:

ChrisB
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ChrisB
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby ChrisB » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:35 pm

Right today I've been doing some testing and it seems peak current is around 112amps although it doesnt stay there for long, general flat out running is about 30amps so while the ping unit is fine for running its not going to hold up with the peak as it seems like the peak cut off is 75amps :(

I've got a horrible feeling I'm going to have to get my hands dirty with BMS stuff etc , was hoping for an off the shelf jobbie but its not going to happen is it.

mmmmmm what now then :?

Visted the ES site and it just scares the willies out of me with all their talk of BMS, cells and stuff.

ChrisB goes away and has a further think about retepsnikrep cells
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

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Jeremy
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Re: My EVT4000e scooter, li-ion project ?

Postby Jeremy » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:03 pm

ChrisB wrote:Visted the ES site and it just scares the willies out of me with all their talk of BMS, cells and stuff.

ChrisB goes away and has a further think about retepsnikrep cells


Chris,

It really isn't as scary as it seems when you get down to it. The easy route (if a bit more expensive) would be to buy one of the few off-the-shelf BMS units available, but there are likely to be some fairly straightforward to build kits available before too long - just keep your eyes peeled on the BMS thread on ES.

In its simplest form, all that's needed is a way to clamp the cell voltage during charge, so that it cannot exceed the safe limit, plus, ideally, a way of notifying the user (or shutting down the power) if any cell in a pack drops down to the safe minimum voltage.

There are lots of features that can be added, but the basic functionality is all that's really needed.

The real problem is that there aren't many solutions easily available to the hobby user, which is why we are pretty much forced to look at homebrew fixes.

Jeremy

Jeremy


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