Battery Pack Charger Connection

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esbro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby esbro » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:51 pm

Hi Grumpy-b, I have been doing a bit more research into this subject and, it seems that the 3 charger idea will work.
I've just come across this website (link below) which shows (better than I have been doing) what I meant about a 4 wire 3 phase (star) system

This is an extract:
"If a balanced symmetrical load is connected across three phase voltage system in parallel, then the three currents will flow in the neutral wire which quantities would be same, but they would be differ by 120° (out of phase), hence the vector sum of these three currents = 0.
i.e. IR + IY + IB = 0  "

Even with only two chargers in use, the phases used are still out of phase by 120 deg. reducing the apparent current.
This 4 wire system is the one used in domestic distribution from the 3 phase + neutral cable in the street to each house's single phase supply.

Any comments welcome. ..... Steve

Link - https://www.electricaltechnology.org/20 ... rrent.html

mark77a
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby mark77a » Thu May 09, 2019 9:11 am

Fascinating discussion gents ! Thanks for filling another gap in my knowledge.

May I add a further question: does anyone know where to find the 'Handshake' signals ? and onboard chargers that are capable of such ?

I'm just planning a conversion and like the OP would like to select an on board charger that I can use with public chargers (eg say 32amp, podpoint at local supermarket) . I'm guessing this will need a more intelligent on board charger with CANbus controls ?

Other components already bought:
Hyper9 AC motor, ACX1 controller etc
5 x Tesla Modules (c 120v)

Thanks in advance,
Mark

esbro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby esbro » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:43 am

Hi Mark, sorry for this late reply. I'm looking for this answer too. Most of the chargers that I can find seem to have canbus control, although some do have canbus and enable.
I've been looking for some sort of interface between the inlet socket on the car and the charger. This could either by-pass the canbus or hook into it - I don't care which as long as it works. If I come up with anything, I'll post it..... Steve

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:18 am

There is no can bus between a type 2 or type 1 charge outlet and the vehicle. Its simple resistance and PWM . If you search on j1772or the european 62196 standards you will see how they work. Its not can bus.

esbro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby esbro » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:36 am

Hi GrumpyB, thanks for your reply.
OK, perhaps I'm a bit confused...The chargers I'm looking at have "canbus" is this only for alarms/indicators, I wonder ? I'll check with the supplier.
I think I'm up-to-date with the PWM and resistors, although the method of using the duty cycle to control the current eludes me. Is there some sort of interface to interpret the cycle into off or on? Am I reading too much into this or is it not difficult to do?
Perhaps you know how to connect up a 6.6kw charger, so that it works with a charge point ? So far, I'm using a type 2 Mennekes vehicle inlet on the car and I have an active balance system for the battery cells. There's also a volt/amp/watt meter to monitor the battery pack, if this helps.
I look forward to your comments with interest.
All the best and thanks..... Steve

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:15 am

If you do a search as I suggested, you will come across all the details you need. But being able to operate at 6.6kw will mean you cant use a 16a outlet. The charger is a completely separate and unrelated device to the mains outlets . They just supply mains if they get the right feed back. If not they wont turn on. OEMS use the signal from the Charge outlet to pick up what sort of device it is and then configures its charger as appropriate to make best use of the current available. Thats quite complex. How they do that will almost certainly be through can bus, but not using any signals/ address related to whatever charger you have. Most aftermarket chargers use can bus to set the charge parameters, not to alter them in use.

esbro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby esbro » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi GrumpyB, thanks for your reply.
Well... I have done searches, in fact I have been researching this subject for a while now, both J1772 and 62196, which seem quite similar save for J1772 only having 2 phases.
Yes, OK the evse supplies the power and it tells the ev what is available, in order that the on-board charger may alter its current output accordingly. However my on board charger (CC,CV) is not likely to have the facility to change the charge current at will - it's on or off. It would be the same if I used my motor-inverter's in-built facility, to use the motor (as an inductor) to charge the battery.
My feeling is that as I am only using my home charge point (32A) or public charge points (32A), I will only need to use the power available at the evse. i.e. the charger will take what it needs. If the evse requires a reduction in power it will see to it, automatically supplying less or cutting it off.
During today's research I came across a small interface which, is fitted in the EV and, processes the handshake to the evse, connects to CANbus and does the on/off control.
I'll post whatever findings I have.
Incidentally, have you done a conversion ? If so what problems did you have (with can bus .. etc..) after you removed the engine ?

All The Best ... Steve

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby Grumpy-b » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:40 am

So far I have only done conversions on older pre can bus cars. SO never been an issue.
The charge outlets cannot control charge rate internally, all you will do if you put this on a 16a outlet is to blow its internal breaker. If you have the correct component values, it wont start, but if your values are low enough to make it turn on then the breaker will blow.

esbro
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby esbro » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:14 am

Thanks GrumpyB, Understood. I'll make sure I have the correct components in place. Hoping that 16A won't be too much of a problem, as I'm using 32A home wallpod and public chargers.... but I give some more thought to whether 16A input could be useful in an emergency.
Many thanks .... Steve

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Battery Pack Charger Connection

Postby Grumpy-b » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:19 pm

So you do have a simple way of reducing the charger output . Thats good. SImply have a default of 10a on the charger and a push button to change it to 32 when you have access to a 32a . That way you can use it on a 13a supply as well.


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