EV Charger Maps

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Kevin Sharpe
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EV Charger Maps

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:15 am

We're a UK charity and about to install a large number of charge points throughout the UK. We will add our location and charge point data to several of the existing charger maps. Unfortunately, each of theses map databases are proprietary and it will take considerable effort to maintain the data as the number of sites grows.

Is anyone aware of an open source charge map application that we could throw our weight behind? If not, would anyone like to join us in developing an open source solution for the EV community?

Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not discuss this in public.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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retepsnikrep
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby retepsnikrep » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:47 am

There must be some sort of simple google map overlay thingy or points of interest etc
Where typing charging points brings up the familiar little tagged markers?
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:47 pm

retepsnikrep wrote:There must be some sort of simple google map overlay thingy...
lots and lots. However, they are all incompatible and even use different definitions for simple things like the socket type. Here are just a few example sites (I've found over 20);

http://www.ev-network.org.uk

http://www.uppladdning.nu

http://www.park-charge.net

http://ev-nation.org/

http://electric.carstations.com/433

http://www.gemelectriccars.co.uk/public ... points.php
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:24 pm

We now have enough feedback to warrant the development of the open charge map database. We have created a project on sourceforge;

http://openchargemap.sourceforge.net

The first task is to agree a common set of records which will allow the existing applications and websites to use the database. Feel free to get involved in the project if this interests you...
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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MaryRCrumpton
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby MaryRCrumpton » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:43 pm

To-date, the Society has chosen to support Tim Nicklin's EV-Network, and we link to it from the front page of the website.

I think his network's strength has been in allowing private individuals to help one another re-charge.

Having said that, I do like the open source idea.

But -

What I would really like to see is Google adding public charging points to their Google maps. So that, as well as searching for nearby 'hotels', or whatever, when looking at a location, one could search for nearby 'EV-charging points'.

I wonder if the society should be lobbying google for this. Something to think about.

Mary.
BVS North-West Coordinator, based in Manchester.
Contact via Text/Phone on 07751 696 055

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:20 pm

MaryRPerkins wrote:I wonder if the society should be lobbying google for this. Something to think about.
I've had some dealings with Google in the past and do not believe they will touch a closed, proprietary, geographically restricted, database like EV-Network. The BVS really needs to start thinking in a different way now that mass adoption of EV's has begun.... It's time to change or die in my opinion....
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby MaryRCrumpton » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:31 pm

Kevin Sharpe wrote:
MaryRPerkins wrote:I wonder if the society should be lobbying google for this. Something to think about.
I've had some dealings with Google in the past and do not believe they will touch a closed, proprietary, geographically restricted, database like EV-Network. The BVS really needs to start thinking in a different way now that mass adoption of EV's has begun.... It's time to change or die in my opinion....


Oh, no, I didn't mean Google should work with the EV-network.

I meant Google maps should, themselves, have charging points on their maps.

When you find a pub, say, on google maps, you can click on its pin and you get offered the option to search for nearby restaurants, hotels, etc. I would like to see nearby EV charging points as one of the things you can choose to search for.

I don't know where Google get their data from to list the nearby hotels. Is it user-submitted then confirmed?

I wonder if the open-source database you are putting together could be a source of information for Google to populate their maps?

Mary.
BVS North-West Coordinator, based in Manchester.
Contact via Text/Phone on 07751 696 055

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timpootle
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby timpootle » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:46 pm

I don't know what to say here. Just letting you know I have read this and am trying to come up with something constructive to reply.

My introduction to any new forum member is "go and look at Tim's EV-Network, and join it if you think you can". As I have said elsewhere, I think Tim's database is a vital stepping-stone to EV take-up, giving drivers confidence to venture further from home even if they never use it.

13 amp sockets are not robust enough for 3 kW chargers, 16 amp sockets need to be available for hours at a time, 32 amp single phase is quite uncommon at the moment but is getting up towards a useful charging rate, DC fast-chargers are rare as hens teeth and every manufacturer has a different standard. So mapping what we have (and what we will need) is a difficult task.

There is someone on the electriccarsUK yahoo group touting for more entries on his map (4evriders.org/locator). I haven't commented there yet but it seems much inferior to Tim's map. I wish there were not the proliferation of charger maps. I would like one (possibly government endorsed) map which does everything. Tim's map has its faults - all of them do. In all probability my mythical government map would end up being the worst of all worlds.

I don't think any of this is contrary to Kevin's view. Your original premise was a tool for submitting standard data to all the varied sites. I wholeheartedly support this. The only way for my "one true map" to come about is for the data on every site to be equal and complete, leaving only useability and page layout to differentiate them. (Don't get me started on user stylesheets). Then inferior websites would dwindle and die (or just sit there, gathering dust) where superior websites would have many users and thrive.

I am concerned about the Sourceforge Charge Map project. I fear that unless you are very careful it will become just another competing map. (It wasn't me who gave you the thumbs-down rating, by the way). I am a bit unclear what the Sourceforge project is trying to do:

Is is a standard model that other websites can adopt?
Is it a central database that other websites get their data from? (Data security then becomes a concern - what do they do if you decide to pull the plug?)
Is is a standalone website (front-end and back-end) that other developers should put their efforts into in preference to their own website? (this is the biggest concern - I just don't think webmasters will give up their own baby and sign up to yours)

So, once again, I applaud your efforts at getting things done. I will join the Sourceforge project and help if I can. I'm just a bit hazy right now as to what help you need, and even if Souceforge is the right place to do it. Maybe this should have gone out as a PM, but perhaps others are waiting in the wings with the same concerns as me, and not speaking at all.
Tim Crumpton

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retepsnikrep
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby retepsnikrep » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:31 pm

I suppose natural selection will apply here. we start of with a plethora of choices/maps but over time the weak fade away and die off. Then the one choosen by the "people" eventually wins through and absorbs the others. A bit like the social networking sites that have come and gone. :roll: I've really no idea who to support at the moment with an actual sign up and vote. I'm sat on the fence waiting for one to come through and lead the pack. :shock:
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: EV Charger Maps

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:38 pm

timpootle wrote:I don't know what to say here. Just letting you know I have read this and am trying to come up with something constructive to reply.
I really appreciate your input on this...

timpootle wrote:My introduction to any new forum member is "go and look at Tim's EV-Network, and join it if you think you can". As I have said elsewhere, I think Tim's database is a vital stepping-stone to EV take-up, giving drivers confidence to venture further from home even if they never use it.
I support, promote, and use Tim's network. However, I think we have to be clear that it's not an open resource that's under community control and I do not believe that Tim's model is useful as we move into the mass adoption of EV's. I discussed my plans to Tim and he believes the open charge map project is a "competitor".... I'm not really sure what to make of that.

I approched over twenty EV Charger Websites. Probably the most 'famous' is Tom Dowling of EV Charger News (http://evchargernews.com/). Again he's not really interested in an open source project, preferring instead to work with a commercial entity Recargo (http://www.recargo.com).

timpootle wrote:13 amp sockets are not robust enough for 3 kW chargers, 16 amp sockets need to be available for hours at a time, 32 amp single phase is quite uncommon at the moment but is getting up towards a useful charging rate, DC fast-chargers are rare as hens teeth and every manufacturer has a different standard. So mapping what we have (and what we will need) is a difficult task.
We are setting up a UK Charity and have set ourselves the target of deploying 1,000 32A free charge points initially. We are also working with a group who are deploying 70A fast chargers. We will formally announce the charity and it's programmes on the 6th November at the BLFCC.

timpootle wrote:I am concerned about the Sourceforge Charge Map project. I fear that unless you are very careful it will become just another competing map. (It wasn't me who gave you the thumbs-down rating, by the way). I am a bit unclear what the Sourceforge project is trying to do:

Is is a standard model that other websites can adopt?
Is it a central database that other websites get their data from? (Data security then becomes a concern - what do they do if you decide to pull the plug?)
Is is a standalone website (front-end and back-end) that other developers should put their efforts into in preference to their own website? (this is the biggest concern - I just don't think webmasters will give up their own baby and sign up to yours).
I envisage a central database that other websites get their data from. The database will be a community project that is owned, policed, and controlled by the community. Once the database is available I would hope that the current webmasters would concentrate on the value added features of their sites and not bother updating their own databases.

I started the project because someone has to "put a stake in the ground" and make a start. The prospect of submitting 1,000 sites to 20+ websites is hideous and I hope the database will prevent that from happening.

The model I envisage is very much like a open source software project where the project is bigger than the individuals who contribute to it.

timpootle wrote:So, once again, I applaud your efforts at getting things done. I will join the Sourceforge project and help if I can. I'm just a bit hazy right now as to what help you need, and even if Souceforge is the right place to do it. Maybe this should have gone out as a PM, but perhaps others are waiting in the wings with the same concerns as me, and not speaking at all.
I have deliberately left the project details sparse because I'm collecting feedback at this time. I have no strong view about using Sourceforge as opposed to any other host. However, what I would say is that I've used Sourceforge on many projects over the last 10 years or so and it does seem extremely stable and have most of the tools that we will need.

I prefer not to use PM if possible because this is a community project. I appreciate your contributions and look forward to working with you.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe


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