Kingston Electric Charge Points

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Grumpy-b
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby Grumpy-b » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:14 pm

My Berlingo Van successfully melted the pin of my Permaplug to the point whre it was stuck in one of these MK sockets. When the cover is closed the plugs on full load can get quite hot. I guess there was also some sort of looseness in the plug/ socket to cause this extreme problem. But the plugs do get hot when the cover is down.
Hence I only use 16amps on my two berlingos.

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ChrisB
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby ChrisB » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:24 pm

The problem can be the plug or the socket, cheapy 13A plugs on berlingos cause the sockets to heat up and fail, quite often its either the fuse carrier part or the nasty way the rivit the connections in the plugs :roll:

I have got a MK plug (with wrap round terminals) in a MK masterseal outside socket, yes it gets warm but not hot enough to do any damage.

However I've plugged it into a nasty cheap extension lead once and melted the socket before now due to the poor grade of metal in the socket not holding the plug secure :roll: it very nearly damaged the plug but didnt.

I only ever plug it into decent sockets now :wink: as the cheap stuff just dies :lol:

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rustybkts
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby rustybkts » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:28 pm

Chris,
I know about the IP54 sockets but it is the plug which is unsuitable as it is so prone to damage and very prone to moisture.

The 16A plug, whilst not having any seals, has its contact pins shielded from damage and is very water resistant as long as it is not lying on the ground.

The 13A plug is far superior to any European, American, Australian etc. one but not when stuck outdoors.

Also, a 16A supply reduces charge time by 20% which is a five hour charge reduced to four and can switch between the two charge rates on my car as well.
I note the charge amps jump from 9A to 11A on the battery pack.

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ChrisB
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby ChrisB » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:55 pm

rustybkts wrote:Chris,
I know about the IP54 sockets but it is the plug which is unsuitable as it is so prone to damage and very prone to moisture.


But if its inside the masterseal socket then surely its now not prone to moisture, the whole point of the masterseal socket :?

rustybkts wrote:The 16A plug, whilst not having any seals, has its contact pins shielded from damage and is very water resistant as long as it is not lying on the ground.


Must admit I really am not a fan of the 16A plugs, how they have any form of IP rating tickles me, as they have no real seals on them. I've even had the one for our caravan keep taking the RCD trip out on a site before now due to condensation forming inside it :roll: I'm afraid I find them quite nasty, apart from the fact they have nice big pins to take the load 8)

rustybkts wrote:The 13A plug is far superior to any European, American, Australian etc. one but not when stuck outdoors.


Totally agree the other countrys have a lot of catching up if you ask me.

rustybkts wrote:Also, a 16A supply reduces charge time by 20% which is a five hour charge reduced to four and can switch between the two charge rates on my car as well.
I note the charge amps jump from 9A to 11A on the battery pack.

Faster is better to mis-quote Jeremy Clarkson. :twisted:


We're the lucky ones being able to go between to the two charge rates, although the berlingo can only do this if you have access to a box of tricks to do it, its not a case of flicking a switch :cry: but I must admit I've not seen a huge improvement on the charge time, even going from 5 to 4 in your case still isnt what I'd call a massive change really.

Once we start to get more production stuff out there that has faster charging options then we're going to be stuck with the good old 13A I think, but saying that many of the production made charge points are being built with 32A in mind :wink:

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:59 pm

osutton wrote:All stakeholders in the EV market are working hard to ensure standardisation not only across London but across the UK and Europe, though as you might imagine it's not an easy process.

Oliver, this is actually really easy... deploy ultra low cost 13A and 32A ('fast') charge points, remove the management system, and give away the electricity. The cost of electricity is so low that it is nothing compared with the costs of the management systems and charge point hardware that you are deploying. The "Charge Points Everywhere" project is having enormous success with this model.... I just which the mainstream players would understand what we really need.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby ChrisB » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:32 pm

Kevin Sharpe wrote:
osutton wrote:All stakeholders in the EV market are working hard to ensure standardisation not only across London but across the UK and Europe, though as you might imagine it's not an easy process.

Oliver, this is actually really easy... deploy ultra low cost 13A and 32A ('fast') charge points, remove the management system, and give away the electricity. The cost of electricity is so low that it is nothing compared with the costs of the management systems and charge point hardware that you are deploying. The "Charge Points Everywhere" project is having enormous success with this model.... I just which the mainstream players would understand what we really need.


I know what your saying Kevin, but how do you make sure its secure and you dont end up with folks abusing the system by pluggin there houses or the likes into it, certain folks with caravans would love free electricity I would imagine :wink:
This is one of the reasons behind the management system.
If councils just plonked points up with no security then very quickly you'd end up with them being used for all kinds of things :wink: and while you say the cost of electricity is low, which it is now, in the future its going to be a lot higher and loading will be greater once more users start using the points and the system grows, whos going to pay for this :?
As I've mentioned before the hardware has to cost what it does due to tests and constraints it has to go through :wink:
Then theres the whole safety aspect of it and the sad way in this country when anyone has an accident the first thing they do is look for someone to blame :roll:

Yes I'd love cheapy points everywhere but the rules and regs just wont allow them on the highway I'm afraid.

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:39 pm

ChrisB wrote:I know what your saying Kevin, but how do you make sure its secure and you don't end up with folks abusing the system by pluggin there houses or the likes into it, certain folks with caravans would love free electricity I would imagine :wink:
If you deploy at 'managed' sites like Hotels, restaurants, and public buildings then the systems are managed by the site owners. The worst case scenario is that someone steals a nights worth of electricity.... this is trivial and I've met no resistance whatsoever from the sites that I'm talking to.

ChrisB wrote:and while you say the cost of electricity is low, which it is now, in the future its going to be a lot higher and loading will be greater once more users start using the points and the system grows, whos going to pay for this :?
None of the suppliers I'm talking to have any concerns about the cost of electricity increasing. They actually say that the price will fall if we can balance the daytime/nighttime load by charging vehicles during 'off peak'.... the reason this will fall is because they will be able to run generating systems at peak efficiency 24/7.

ChrisB wrote:As I've mentioned before the hardware has to cost what it does due to tests and constraints it has to go through :wink:
You can deploy fully code compliant systems for very little money. The real costs (and profit) are in the management systems that are being deployed.

ChrisB wrote:Yes I'd love cheapy points everywhere but the rules and regs just wont allow them on the highway I'm afraid.
So, why put all your effort into the highway locations? Simply deploy charge points everywhere that's simple and low cost.... there are millions of suitable sites in the UK. Then let the mainstream players waste money on unnecessarily complex systems that few people really need. At the end of the day, the vast majority of EV owners will charge overnight at the home location. People away from home really need fast charge solutions not 13A sockets.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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ChrisB
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby ChrisB » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:09 pm

Kevin Sharpe wrote:So, why put all your effort into the highway locations?


Because its my job :wink: ..... and I'm not allowed to put them on private ground :wink:

I know what your saying, I'm just trying to show the reasonings behind the more expensive highway versions and why we have to have a management system behind them :wink:

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Kingston Electric Charge Points

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:14 pm

ChrisB wrote:I know what your saying, I'm just trying to show the reasonings behind the more expensive highway versions and why we have to have a management system behind them :wink:
Don't get me wrong, I think what you and Oliver are doing is great.... I just think it's time for the rest of us to stand up and demand charge points everywhere so that we can usher in the brave new world :D
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe


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