What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

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retepsnikrep
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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby retepsnikrep » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Lots of interesting points.

When I first joined the BVS 15 years or so ago the internet was in it's infancy, now it dominates our daily lives. The days of an overarching amateur group with a formal hirearchy especially with technology based subjects are virtually finished. The growth of the internet and especially discussion groups means that most physical publications are almost irrelevant to the general membership.

Like others I'm a member of several forums including 'Insight Central' , 'EndlessSphere' , 'Pistonheads' , 'Picbasicpro' etc etc. No fee is charged and they do not publish any sort of magazine ASFAIK. No committee is used or required for these. in fact most were created by a single individual and then attracted an active following because of a few basic factors.

1) They filled a niche serving a geographically wide group.
2) They attracted a few key core followers/enthusiasts who's prescence attracted others.
3) They had discussions of particluar relevance to the group, which was linked to from other sites attracting interest and internet traffic.
4) The internet search robots were able to index the sites, and common searches related to the subject give the site prominence.

A subject like 'Battery Vehicles' requires a modicum of technical knowledge and assumes (possibly wrongly) that members are capable and willing to embrace newer communication technology. The BVS review even in the updated form of the glossy A4 publication is largely irrelevant and an expensive drain on meagre resources.

The drive IMHO should be to a much more active website linked to this discussion forum. Daily news articles about EV's and links to items across the internet. I cite 'The Enquirer' and 'The Register' as two technology news sites worth a look. We should encourage young members perhaps along the lines of the shell marathon. The committees only real role would be to appoint people to manage the website and forums and perhaps suggest articles for inclusion/discussion. Annual jamborees etc can all be organised via the forum or website.

Of course a really active website requires a lot of time and effort, the forum however is mainly self sustaining once set up, and can me managed by a few trusted members.

I hope the BVS continues in a more modern form.
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Night Train
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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby Night Train » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:07 pm

tim.strutt wrote:The question is as you quite rightly pose - "what should the BVS be for?", perhaps it should be rebranded as the EVS?
Tim.

'Electric Vehicle' seems to give a more real image of electric cars, etc. then 'Battery Vehicle' does in modern media I think. Battery powered cars makes me think of remote control toy cars whereas electric cars makes me think of the Gwiz, the Prius and the Berlingo as well as the multitude of other types and conversions.

Maybe the aims of the society shouldn't be limited by 'Batteries' as a term.
I know when I speak with people and mention batteries to power my car the first questions are about the weight and inefficiencies of lead acid. When I talk about my electric MR2 people start asking if it is going to be lithium and asking if I have thought of hydrogen fuel cells and hybrid systems.

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby tim.strutt » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:25 am

Thnx for posting details of the AGM - I'll make a note in my diary.

Was anyone aware of this in the BVS?

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/ ... ing_en.htm

Now I read.... http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/elect ... safety.156

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby duxuk » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:22 pm

It would seem prudent to have a forum based discussion before the October AGM to define what members and, equally importantly, non members want the society to be. If the committe were to disregard the conclusions of such a discussion this would surely mean the end of the BVS. The internet is and deserves to be more powerfull and influential than any committee.

Having said that the BVS's presence at show gives the society something which non of the web based forums can match. I just hope that the commitee can find ways to improve the representation. (Just a few modern, well presented vehicles with some simple information about their form and function is all that is needed). The average mass market EV user is unlikely, I think, to feel a need for a special intrest group. In the early days of motoring there were many such organisations. The RAC and AA are the most famous examples but look how their funtion has changed. The BVS is more likely to appeal to enthusiasts and DIYers. There are only so many of us out there. If the BVS (or EVS?) is to survive it needs to be a friendly community. We need to occasionally meet each other, show off our EVs and help each other to achieve our EV ambitions-though I may be alone in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!

So come on, lets talk. Lets have some ideas thrown into the melting pot and see what happens.

Andrew.

PS, I expect to be an EV user, not just a builder within a week. After 20 months of building I'm a little bit giddy! Is anyone else excited about electric vehicles?

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby GregsGarage » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:18 pm

The BVS review can't compete in any way to the Forums for up to date information. For example this is from the most recent edition of the review.
Equalising cells in lithium iron phosphate batteries

One problem with Lithium batteries is keeping all the cells at the same state of charge. With more traditional acid or alkali batteries the cells are equalized by gentle overcharging, but this could be disastrous.

I have discovered that Evolve electronics in the USA http://evolveelectrics.com do a shunt to go across each cell of a lithium iron phosphate batteries that cuts in at 3.65 volts wasting some 600 mA. (like a large zener diode) so that weak cells get the chance to catch up.


There are quite a lot of issues when it comes to safely and successfully using lithium cells. With many different products on the market which should you use? This can't be answered in one paragraph, probably needs a few pages in a magazine just to get the basic concept across. The article only gives you a weblink so you are going to have to get on the internet to find more information about it. While you are on the internet, you may as well go to these forums and some of the other forums that have been mentioned to find the information you need. To add insult to injury it would appear that even though this is from the current issue, the information is out of date. Going to the website shows no sign of the simple shunts, only a full BMS system! :?

Replace the review with a newsletter for club business and events. Make more use of the website and forum. This is a great resource, especially for those of us on the U.K. where we can address issues more relevant to the U.K. Maybe some of the historical articles that have been in the review can find a place on the website. How about a wiki for organizing some of the info on the forums and elsewhere so that it can be found more easily?

I am happy to continue being a fully paid up member of the BVS even without any further publications of the Review or Plugged in. It just needs to be clear what my membership is paying for.
Greg Fordyce

Daewoo Matiz
http://www.evalbum.com/4191

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby ChrisB » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:30 pm

Interesting debate I have to say, its interesting to see some of the same old things coming to the fore front again :wink: just a few years after "the big shake up" that TBH failed to a degree I think, it moved us on but not enough really.

I loved the Berlingo Vehicle Society reference :lol: :lol: had never thought of it like that, but actually if you think about it I recon there are more regular Berlingo EV users here than any other EV in the whole of the society, maybe us Berlingo owners should over throw the current BVS committee and replace it totally with a Berlingo committee :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: well its a thought :mrgreen:

But to be honest I've always thought the whole committee thing is very old hat today, out of all the things I do there are only really two of them that actually have committee's, and out of those two there is only one that does the whole official committee thing.......and thats the BVS :|

Some great ideas coming out, keep up the good work, but I will say that its fine to have ideas but actually carrying them out and putting the money where the ideas are is a lot harder :wink:

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

ex925
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BVS evolution in an "EV-world"? from "Ed, with the pointy st

Postby ex925 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:44 pm

Is there a better way for the BVS to became a focus for affordable development of EVs, specifically, for road-going EVs?

On September 25th. and 26th. 2010, we hope to have another Stratford on Avon-based "Electrathon"
Such an EVent provides an opportunity to test EVs not yet road legal but scrutineer-approved
We also aim to provide several forms of competition within the Shakespeare County Raceway arena
(Presently we are negotiating the usual insurance hurdles, but all should be well, as last year)

I reprise this here as a preamble to this specific question:
"What does the membership as a whole want from the BVS and in return for the fees?"

Whilst any form of motor racing satisfies the competitive instinct, speeds development, and raises profile, participation (even in Electric Vehicle (EV) racing.....) is very demanding in money, time and commitment.

Is there another way for the BVS to actively enhance those three objectives?
Should we seek to devise some legal and acceptable form of on-road competition?
Would such an EVent, a "Regularity" or "Range / Economy" trial even be feasible?
Would it prove a practical benefit to BVS members, perhaps by encouraging diversity of design?
Would such an EVent be easier and more affordable, for the BVS to run?
Could that lead to the BVS becoming a group eagerly courted by motor-sport venue proprietors?
(thus gaining the best of both worlds at less cost in money and person-time?)

Some correlations:
"Road-going EVs" would need to include:
Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles and Two Wheel Electric Vehicles (EAPCs & TWEVs)
Motor Insurance for EVs is often difficult to negotiate
I hope that emerging public and government awareness of growing EV use will reduce obstacles, "Fait Accompli"
All comments please, ideas and willingness most definitely, please
All the best
Ed

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby arsharpe » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:14 am

Personally I would like to see the BVS :-

a) still drive the take-up of EVs to ensure that it does happen despite the oil companies, etc and to ensure that hydrogen is not falsely adopted in preference
b) influence/define standards to help develop high quality EVs e.g.
....-trying to maintain the user model of a car by keeping the current standard automatic control layout and use
....-preempt legislation on warning noise generation to avoid pedestrian accidents so that a practical reasonable standard is applied.
c) influence/define standards on low cost charge points

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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby MaryRCrumpton » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:20 pm

This is a really interesting discussion, and one which Timpootle and I mentioned to committee at the recent committee meeting.

I hope that as many members as possible will come along to the AGM, so we can have some face-to-face chats about it all.

I believe that the committee's primary duty is to take the society forward in ways that members want; so that the society is/becomes the thing that its members want it to be.

Having said that, whilst the committee can coordinate things, the BVS is ultimately a product of what we, its members, contribute to it.

For example, the BVR is a reflection of what we members have sent to the Editor for publication, along with things he finds from other sources. If it doesn't contain what we want, we need to write better things for it.

If the members want a 'Plugged In' glossy magazine (which was good I thought), then someone needs to volunteer for the post of Advertising Secretary (see my notes about the AGM in the members section of this forum) to raise money to cover printing costs etc, and we would also need committed volunteers for an editorial team, and regular writers for the magazine.

If we want track events, then I think we need to support the September Electrathon, by participating, or spectating, or offering to assist with marshalling etc. And we need to tell committee we want future track events.

If there are other things we want, then surely we need to volunteer to help make them happen, as well as suggesting them to other members, and to the committee.

As we move forward, I think there are many positive things the BVS *could* do, but we probably need to pick some of them to focus on, and all work together to make them happen.

For myself, I would like to see more active local groups forming: people getting-together with other people near them in order to work on their projects, campaign for local re-charging points, visit places of interest (EV factories/museums etc) or do whatever interests the group.

I am really hoping that someone volunteers for the post of Press/Publicity officer, to do things like sending out BVS press releases commenting on developments in the field of EVs,telling the press about our EVents and publicising them generally, and also spreading word (to the press, and others) about issues we feel strongly about (e.g. charging points) etc.... .

I would like to continue (personally) to run my EV conference each year (ElectraCon), supported by the BVS, and for that to grow, in time, into a more significant event.

I would like to see the BVS catering for the interests of a range of our members: those interested in restoring historic EVs, those building/converting their own EVs, and those driving one 'off the shelf' and perhaps more interested in EVangelising etc.

There is much we can do, if people are keen to volunteer to help make it happen.

In the meantime, please do keep your ideas coming, and, crucially, do please volunteer to be a part of making those ideas happen. Your society is nothing without you.

Mary.
BVS North-West Coordinator, based in Manchester.
Contact via Text/Phone on 07751 696 055

ex925
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Re: What should the BVS be for?... in a mass market EV world.

Postby ex925 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:19 am

Would this work?
A membership vote by post or email or on forum on a several-layer array of options to evolve the BVS
One layer to be a selection of "Single-issue" potential BVS "Projects" or "Causes" (see 4 below)

1 First layer - passive - member minimum involvement on forum only
1.1 Within which as many "Topics" as we can devise for a graded vote, negative to positive
1.2 Every participant gets one vote

2 Second layer - basic active - add Fee-paying to forum
2.1 Within which add Archive, BVR, PI, discounts at BVS- run or attended EVents , (etc?)
2.2 Every fee-payer gets to use a second vote added to 1.2

3 Third layer - Full active - add commitment to committee post
3.1 Within which add..... (expenses? discounts on purchases?)
3.2 Every committee member gets to use a third vote added to 1.2 and 2.2

4 Fourth Layer - Single-issue Project Post-holder - making a change beneficial to EV users
4.1 As 3, but for a fixed-term (usually a year?) to organise/promote/direct/represent a "BVS Project"
4.2 Probably not a committee member, so as to spread the load, and attract "Single-Issue Specialists"
4.3 Every "SIPPh" gets a third vote added to to 1.2 and 2.2, but no more than does a committee post-holder

Would a multi-level vote system work?
Would a multi-level vote system be acceptable to members?
Would a multi-level vote system give a fair result in the view of committee members?
Could a multi-level vote system give a clear, practicable, and democratic result in time for the next AGM?

Just me and my pointy stick
What do people think?
Ed


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