Long range lithium conversion

If you own a Electrique or any of the other PSA range of vehicles then look here for your answers and post your questions or general views here
User avatar
ChrisB
Posts: 4657
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:33 am
Location: Hampshire on the Southcoast
Contact:

Re: More later

Postby ChrisB » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:03 pm

Yay Tim we have pictures at last 8)

Then again OMG :shock: :shock: :shock: .................your not telling me ALL this has to go into a berlingo are you ???

Image

Errrrr dont want to cast problems on your project but to a layman like me that aint gona fit :?

I never thought you where looking at THAT many !!!!

timpootle wrote:The long wait for the batteries to arrive has robbed me of impetus. I'm going to need help from my friends to get me going again.


Surely the price tag sort of keeps you going dosnt it, it would me :?

But back to the questions in hand, how the heck are you going to get that lot into a blingo ? that lot must weigh a fair bit as well, you mention the power to weight ratio and surely there must be a point that you get to when regardless the amount of batteries the range doesnt increase ?

Loving ya work mind you, so where did you say your garage was, I could do with a few li-ion's for some projects :wink:

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

mattcarr
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby mattcarr » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:26 pm

Wow, that is alot of batteries. I dont suppose you fancy doing a nice 48 volt pack for my Gwiz do you?? It would be interesting to see how much weight diference there is between the lead pack and a lithium pack, and what size a 48v lithium pack would come in at.

User avatar
ChrisB
Posts: 4657
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:33 am
Location: Hampshire on the Southcoast
Contact:

Postby ChrisB » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:19 pm

Do we have any further news on this little/huge project Tim :?

Its all gone rather quiet :?:


ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

User avatar
timpootle
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Postby timpootle » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:08 pm

Umm... Yeah.... Well.... These lithium cells have a shelf life, don't they? :-(

I have cut 3 of 10 metre length M10 studs into 30mm lengths to be used as terminal studs. Only 7 metres to go...

I have looked at various undervoltage protection BMS, including REAPSystems, Lynch/Stybrook, Peter Perkins', LTC6802, without settling on any of them.

I have tried fitting my cells into the Citroen battery box you lent me, with a view to designing the boxes I need to make (but that is all. I need to make more progress here. Or maybe just leave them loose in the boot...)

I have emailed Evan Tuer regarding interfacing with the Sagem controller.

I have found myself considerably less competent than I was relying on to do this project. Help!

I have been considering handing the project management to a professional, but my money is not limitless (what with the huge bank loan and everything).

So, all in all, not very good. Thank you for asking.
Tim Crumpton

User avatar
ChrisB
Posts: 4657
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:33 am
Location: Hampshire on the Southcoast
Contact:

Postby ChrisB » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:25 pm

Oh poo :cry:

I was relying on you sorting it all out ready for me to covert mine :lol:

mmmm dunno how long you can leave a new set of li-ions before they need to be "looked at" with some sort of charger :?

Must admit I think it might be an idea to keep an eye on their voltages, I'm not well up on them at all :oops: but from what I see and hear it seems they dont like going over or under their voltage ??

I think if it was me I'd rack out as many as I could in the rear load bay (weight permiting) and other areas and see how you go.

It may mean you wont get the full range you where after but it would mean you'd have something up and running, I cant see personally how that huge pile is going to squeeze in the Blingo :?

This next bit could be a total load of tosh, however the Nicads weigh a fair amount more I'd expect than a similar pack of Li-ions and I would think just replacing like for like you'd easily obtain 120miles range not quite the 350 odd I think your after but 120 is pretty good 8) you'd have plenty of spares as well 8)

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

User avatar
retepsnikrep
Posts: 1387
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: North Yorkshire England
Contact:

Postby retepsnikrep » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:29 am

I would check the cell voltages every couple of months. Charge any which are down below 3.10V back upto 3.65v or so.

Shelf life unused in a cool environment on floor in a UK garage probably pretty good, but they want to be in use within a year to get the best out of them IMO.

If the project has really hit the buffers then selling them at cost to others on here as smaller packs would seem sensible. I agree with the others though try to crack on asap. We don't want you to fail/fall by the wayside.
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

User avatar
timpootle
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Postby timpootle » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:30 pm

Thanks for the poke, Chris and Peter. Prompted by your concern I have checked the voltage on all 204 cells, and entered them on a spreadsheet to monitor them into the future.

I numbered the cells 1A,1B,1C,1D,2A,2B....51C,51D for tracking purposes. I also recorded the HiPower Date code and Serial number for statistical analysis of how my pack decays. I have posted it online for anyone who might be interested.

Next I had another look under the bonnet, and moved the controller back where the top pack used to live, giving me a big tall space at the front for the forward battery box. I can JUST squeeze 14 cells between the chassis rails, but that leaves no room for the box, so I have now arranged them 13 wide, 2 high lying on their long side. I will take some photos for you.

I plan to fabricate the box from GRP with steel reinforcing, picking up on the front lower battery box mounting. I have hacked off the controller shelf mounting angle to give me full width all the way up.

This work at the front is primarily to get weight distribution better. With no batteries under the bonnet and half the pack in the load space, the car looked like it was heading for the sky! Jukka Jarvinen has his big pack in the load bay, but carries ballast up the front. I can't afford to do that, even for trial purposes.

The 26 cells in the front box will have to be wired up before I put the lid on the box (The lid will be the front or aft face of the box). I am still deciding whether to go for 2 parallel or 3 parallel. I have abandonned the 4p idea - it's just too much weight for the car. Once it it all together I will see how far 3p will take me. I may resort to a power trailer for the 240 mile design journey but I would like to avoid that if possible.

Onward and upward!
Tim Crumpton

User avatar
timpootle
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Postby timpootle » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:30 pm

The project is progressing slowly, but at least it is progressing now. I have admitted to buying too many cells, and will be selling some shortly. I am keeping 153 (out of 204) to create a 51s3p pack of 162v 600Ah, six times the original capacity.

I have ordered the shelf which the front battery box will sit on (the bender at work was not man enough for 2mm steel) and selected a BMS system (the same one Russ Sciville has chosen for his Elise).

The rest of the cells I will leave in the load bay for now, but I needed some up front to get the weight distribution safe (i.e. the front wheels are actually touching the ground)

Evan Tuer has encouraged me as I hear he is now driving a lithium 106
Tim Crumpton

User avatar
ChrisB
Posts: 4657
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:33 am
Location: Hampshire on the Southcoast
Contact:

Postby ChrisB » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:35 pm

Do you know yet what difference losing 50 or so cells will make on the range yet Tim ?

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

User avatar
Night Train
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:55 pm
Location: Manchester

Postby Night Train » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:47 pm

That is a fantastic bundle of cells there, I'm not surprised you can't get them all in. Even with a trailer you will have diminishing returns with the all up weight plus the weight of the trailer.

Have you had any confirmation that the cells will still be under warrenty if they are not used in the upright position? I have been chatting with the chaps on DIY electric car and there is concern that warrenties are not effective if the cells are not used upright. This thread.

So, if you are going to sell some how much would, say, 40 or 50 of them cost (PM me if you want)? That is how many 200ah cells I am looking at for my MR2.
I haven't got a motor, controller or charger yet but....
:lol:


Return to “Citroen Berlingo Electrique or other PSA vehicles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests