Motor brushes oh boy!!!

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harry morris
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Motor brushes oh boy!!!

Postby harry morris » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:51 pm

Well gents, my beloved (shiny) red van actually broke down last week and I had to be brought home on the back of a tow truck front wheels off the deck! fortunately it was a friend with the tow truck so no silly costs involved just his diesel,
She had been acting up a bit on my way to work as in jigging and jolting like as CHRIS says like an engine mis firing and at one point actually stopped and on came the red stop light !
So i switch off and on again and and CLUNK she gets me the last 300 yards to my work place with plenty of volts and 70% on the energy meter, so i put her on charge (i love my job FREE electricity) and go about my work for the next four hours.
At going home time i disconnect charging lead and check energy meter showing 100% but hadn't finished charging, so of we go everything seems normal but after 1/2 mile and jolting and stop again !!! this time no end of fiddling with fuses checking all the heavy cables, nothing !!! I thought accelerator potentiometer mmmmmm so i get towed home and had to leave my poor van till the weekend while i went to work in our standby YOYOTA PRIUS.
The weekend arrives and wife take PRIUS to her place of work leaving me with badly behaved WHITE van and my utterly (until now) reliable (shiny) red van, so i take the accelerator assembly from white van and swap it for red vans ! absolutely nothing ! I check everything from back to front and find nothing ! so up she goes on the ramps motor inspection plate off AND OH BOY !!! this looks bad as in BAD !!! on close inspection the armature looks black and splattered with what looks like copper, I think the worst the armature is buggered, you know it's been so long since I changed the motor brushes I had to look up CHRISES post on changing brushes !!! so I do all the nessarsary undoings one brush was well down to the copper wire but the next one was in bits and would not come out of the holder so I had to chip it away with a small screwdriver and pull the remains out with pliers, that was all the brushes removed except that last one had left what looks like solid metal in one corner so another brush would not slide in and out smoothly but would stop when it came to this WELD !!! the splattered copper over the armature must have come from the worn down brush wiring as it was soft and easily removed only one splatter actually bridging two segments flicked this out with a Stanley knife, so my heart started to lift a little as I cleaned the armature with some fine emery paper and to my amazement the armature cleaned up beautifully and even more amazing no signs of any wear.
I had kept the old brushes as spares in case I had problems and boy was I glad of them, the problem remains however with this METAL in the brush holder some sort of rotary file to fit in my DREMEL should do the trick, I can get a thin sheet of plastic under the brush holder to prevent any accidental damage to the armature.
To get me back on the road until new brushes arrive I had to GROVE out the carbon brush to get round the problem of the weld metal !!! so I connect everything back together check then double check everything again and switch on, CLUNK and away she goes perfect !!! I let her run wheels off the deck for 50 miles look for any arcing no problems here, take her out on the road and shes fine no problems at all.
How I got away with that bit of POOR maintenance I do not know, on checking the mileage since I changed the brushes I note I have traveled 7800 so the brushes will have to be checked without fail every 5000 miles in future, I can only assume that the brushes I fitted which were from EVAN TUER when he was our guru are very soft as the armature shows no signs of wear after 28000 miles, well thats my rant over, cheers everyone, HARRY MORRIS.

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Motor brushes oh boy!!!

Postby Grumpy-b » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:13 pm

I keep brushes in stock, so let me know if you need them.
The official solution was a set of specially shaped stones that fitted the brush holders and could be moved in and out to remove the spatter. Could be done with a piece of hard wood and emery cloth, or even a piece of aluminium.
As a matter of course I now check the brushes whenever I do a Maintenance charge.

Do make sure the armature is well and truely clean, again the stones in the brush holder I guess could have done that as well.

Grumpy-b

highend
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:43 pm
Location: Poland
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Re: Motor brushes oh boy!!!

Postby highend » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:09 pm

harry morris wrote:I note I have traveled 7800 so the brushes will have to be checked without fail every 5000 miles in future, I can only assume that the brushes I fitted which were from EVAN TUER when he was our guru are very soft as the armature shows no signs of wear after 28000 miles, well thats my rant over, cheers everyone, HARRY MORRIS.


Aftermarket brushes needs to be checked every 5000 miles as they wear faster than original Citroen ones...
Maintenance is a big word and lots of people forget about it. It is like to forget change oil in fossil fuel vehicle - saw that many times :(

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Motor brushes oh boy!!!

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:13 pm

The original spec Schunk brushes were of a harder material, which they subsequently changed as it was thought to cause fast wear rates on the commutator. The subsequent 105 material is the spec to which mine and others get their brushes manufactured. As the cars get older, I think a slightly faster wear rate on the brushes is better than a faster wear rate on the comm.
When changing the brushes its always important to visually check the cummutator around its full diameter. Its normal to see a slight wear on one side of each segment to the other so dont worry about trying to make it fully flat. You are more likely to make the thing out of round and so domore damage than having slightly worn segments. If some are badly scored, its a question of getting the whole thing skimmed, or living with the scoremarks. Its generally caused by a piece of grit or if the brushes have got too low the copper cable. But the point being if the cause has gone away then it shouldnt get any worse.
It is also important to blow the dust out of the motor when changing the brushes, and when you check them out. I use a length of nylon 8mm airline its nice and flexible and does little harm when pushed into the end of the motor. Cleans out a load of dust quite readily.
Pushingthe brushes down to the wear limit causes them to be slightly loose in the holder which is why they get more spatter on them as they get towards their end of life. They also have a slightly reduced spring load on them at that point.
Grumpy-b


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