Long range lithium conversion

[mattcarr]

97 kwh battery. Wow that is alot of stored energy. The pack in my car is 13.2 kwh so you have more than 7 times the capacity - and 7 time the weight. My pack is 156kg - so about 11kg a kwh. That would put your pack at aver 1000kg. Does that not take you over the vans gross vehicle weight at all? As for the charger - you would need some serious power to do a quick charge on that battery pack.

[Beemer]

We'll need Tim to ascertain what I'm surmising.

He'll turn up

Matt, What are you driving and what sort of general range can you get with 13KWH? I'm making what I hope will be a 450lb trike. Low and slippery with radials, 10KWH and expecting 100 miles.

[timpootle]

Yep, it's a big pack.

I bought enough for 4 parallel, but sold one string to Rob Sharpe for his 106 so now I have 3p51s 200Ah 3.2v = 97,920 kWh at about 900kg.

I intend to take it to a weighbridge soon, but designed it to be within the 1800 kg GVW. I have helper springs on the rear suspension.

I'm not going to buy a fast charger just yet, tempting though it is. I have the 10A charger supplied by HiPower (which would take 3 days for a full charge) and I may be able to use the Sagem 14A onboard charger too, with a couple of tweaks from Evan.

I haven't used either yet. I have driven 62 miles on the original charge the cells came with, and I am down to 3.25v/cell off load, 3.12v when drawing 150A at 60mph. I will try out the charger when I get down to 3.2v off load. Cells were sat at 3.33v when delivered, which they maintained for 3 years in my garage...

Looking good so far.

[Beemer]

Hi Tim,
good to see you.
You are right about the charge rate. You only replace what you use and that's an overnight thing. If your bms can knock off the charger at a lower voltage, I'd be on it.

With the weight you'll be using more juice just to get rolling. The load on those tyres will use a lot too. I'd deffo consider a trailer with 2/3's of your pack. So if you are doing the distance it can also carry a big charger, maybe a generator that can help warm the pack on those colder days?

Did I hear some mods need to be done underneath to take a hitch? Shouldn't be a problem.

Having your van lighter will be better for around town, going to work, carrying stuff and saves on the running bill.

[highend]

hello I was reading all and I was shocked a littlebit to see such BIG lithiums...
Now I know that when I saw lithium packs in Rob Sharpe house (I bought his Berlingo Electrique) - these were from Tim.
- I think Rob didn't fitted that in 106, rather sold peugeot on ebay.

I just wonder because I have FIAT PANDA ELETTRA it has 12pcs 6V lead-acid batteries (72V 160Ah), should have 84V 160Ah - and those batteries are 20 years old (still got some range) but I wonder for Lithium conversion - costs? Just asking for some advice. Or maybe TIM decide to sell more a bit - so maybe I can fit them in poor PANDA (parked right now). Panda has all batteries inside (no rear seat) and it is original electric car from Fiat - 1992 year

[Beemer]

hello I was reading all and I was shocked a littlebit to see such BIG lithiums...
Now I know that when I saw lithium packs in Rob Sharpe house (I bought his Berlingo Electrique) - these were from Tim.
- I think Rob didn't fitted that in 106, rather sold peugeot on ebay.

I just wonder because I have FIAT PANDA ELETTRA it has 12pcs 6V lead-acid batteries (72V 160Ah), should have 84V 160Ah - and those batteries are 20 years old (still got some range) but I wonder for Lithium conversion - costs? Just asking for some advice. Or maybe TIM decide to sell more a bit - so maybe I can fit them in poor PANDA (parked right now). Panda has all batteries inside (no rear seat) and it is original electric car from Fiat - 1992 year

A bit off topic but..
http://en.calb.cn/Product/?id-116.html

CALB 180AH are 300x180x71. Expect the price to be ~$1.1/AH before S&H costs.

26 cells*180*1.1 = $5,148. If in the UK, expect £6,000 on the doorstep.
15KWH, call it 12KWH for safety. Used correctly they should outlive your car, maybe you too!

3x the charge of lead and 1/2 the weight. They don't fade under load like lead too. But you will require a proper charger.
CALB recommend no more than 3.5V per cell these days.

[mattcarr]

Hi Beemer,

I have got a Citroen C1 Ev'ie. It was converted by ECCPLC - they converted aout 150 of them. With my 25 cell 13.2 kwh pack I can confortably get 60 miles - maximum with good weather and careful driving would see about 65 or so - not that I have even driven that far in one go. My car has got 11500 miles on it now and still going strong.

ECCPCL told me that they did some cars with a 32 cell pack = 16.9 kwh. They say that these cars had more power as they had a higher nominal voltage and said the range was from 75 - 90 miles per charge. They quoted me about 5k to upgrade my car to the 32 cell pack !!!!

[Beemer]

Hey, thanks for the info Matt

Rule of thumb they say divide the weight in pounds by 100 and that should be the average W/H per mile consumption.

132/60 = 22*100 = 2200 lbs! or 220WH/mile That's quite good!

[mattcarr]

My little car is nearer 880kg so around the 200wh per mile. Tims van weighing in at roughly 1800kg ( 3960lb ) so roughly 400wh per mile or about a range of 240 miles on that massive battery pack. That is alot of weight to be carrying around in batteries. Say loosing 1/3rd of the pack taking the GVW down by about 300kg making the van 1500kg ( 3300lb ) so using your rule of thumb, this weight pack would have about 64kwh's giving a range of almost 200 miles at 330wh per mile. So only a difference of 40 miles range for 300kg of batteries? Umm, I am not to sure, it would be interesting to see real world figures on the van.

[Beemer]

I'm entirely with you on that Matt.
Should of included the safety range for your batteries so my bad assumption on weight..

There is an American site with calculators. You know this?
http://www.evsource.com/battery_calculator.php

I've previously graphed distance/capacity increases for my project. It goes fairly linearly up to a point then distance loses as more batteries are added. I put this down to the law of driving averages between accelerating/stopping and the much more economical constant driving Tim hopes to use his for. Jack Rickard of EVTV has spoken of this distance/driving thing with his Escalade conversation. I think that will weigh in at about 7700lbs?.. Say, 3500Kg

Wouldn't mind doing a rolling load test on Tim's van. 200 miles one 1P? I'd sell 2/3's of the pack, buy a big charger with the money to compliment the little one. Then use Kev's 32A commando sockets and/or Ecotricity's motorway points while they stop and have a chill; live the life with the rest of the money.