Long range lithium conversion

If you own a Electrique or any of the other PSA range of vehicles then look here for your answers and post your questions or general views here
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timpootle
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Postby timpootle » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:22 pm

Batteries are due Real Soon Now. I understand the boat from China was delayed and is now expected in Felixstowe tomorrow, so I should get the battery some time this week *cringe*

I haven't done any more to the vehicle in the mean time- job one will be figuring out where they all go; job two is connecting them to the Citroen controller.

I ordered a BMS from HiPower. This was designed to look after charging only. They rely on the vehicle to prevent over-discharge, so must ensure that the Berlingo does that reliably. There is already the 'creep home' function, but I need to check it will shut off completely too, before destroying the cells.

Later on I will look at fast charging, as the onboard BMS/charger is specified at 10A/240V, meaning a 90 hour recharge time !
Tim Crumpton

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PHEV
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Postby PHEV » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:28 am

Hmm, you can't rely on the controller to shut off in time to save cells is 1 goes low, you need an LVC circuit. When they are empty the voltage will drop like a stone.
If you can't find one elsewhere drop me a PM, I can knock up 14 series LVC boards for £35 each..
Steve
*Mazda MX-5, 300KW peak, 300v 20KW/h lipo pack, Soliton 1000A controller. 1100KG.
*Ducati SS twin Agni 80HP peak.
*Aprilia RS motorcycle, 500A controller, Cedric's AgniMotor, 96v 6kw/h LiPo pack, 130kg, 90mph.
www.jozztek.com

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MaryRCrumpton
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Postby MaryRCrumpton » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:24 am

ChrisB wrote:OMG Tim...........your actually going to do it :shock:

First thoughts are ..........where on earth are you going to put that lot :shock: and wasnt there a weight issue with them :?

This will be a VERY interesting thread and thanks for sharing it with us.

The question is will this make your EV have the longest range in the country, or even the world ? ( any demo vehicles dont count in my book as they are nothing more than look what we can do......cos they dont end up actually using them :roll: )

ChrisB


Weight is an issue for us, but there are various ways round this. Beefing up the suspension by adjusting the torsion bar is a possibility.
But we have several ideas.

It would be rather good if it did turn out to have the longest range in the country. :)

I think we are wavering between excited and scared at the moment. :wink: But I keep telling Tim that everything's gonna be fine... :D

Mary.
BVS North-West Coordinator, based in Manchester.
Contact via Text/Phone on 07751 696 055

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ChrisB
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Postby ChrisB » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:10 pm

Come on then :twisted:

I got a text the other day saying something about batteries :wink:

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

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timpootle
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Postby timpootle » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:43 pm

Yeah. Well. They arrived last Tuesday. I unpacked them all and checked voltages. 3.29~3.33, with just one cell at 3.28

Now I just need to figure out where to put them all. Photos are being taken as I go. More later.
Tim Crumpton

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ChrisB
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Postby ChrisB » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:36 pm

timpootle wrote: More later.


What more photos ......we havent seen one yet :twisted: come on we/I am desperate to see your garage littered with ......how many was it.....li-ion's 8)

This thread needs more Pics :lol: They do say a picture tells a thousand words :wink:

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

mattcarr
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Postby mattcarr » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:43 pm

timpootle - any updates on how your conversion is going?

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ChrisB
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Postby ChrisB » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:38 am

I think its all a wind up Matt :lol:

Tims gone very quiet and we've not seen any piccy's so far :lol:

Either that or no ones realised Tims fainted in the garage when he got the invoice come through for the batteries :shock:

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

cianof
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Postby cianof » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:36 pm

Faced with the fact that my vans batteries aren't going to last forever, I'm really interested to see how this project progresses. It would be great to document the process of adding a different battery chemistry to the Berlingo.

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timpootle
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More later

Postby timpootle » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:42 pm

The long wait for the batteries to arrive has robbed me of impetus. I'm going to need help from my friends to get me going again.

The projects by Greg, PeterP, Evan, Russ, Jukka and Andrej have inspired me and kept me believing. Mary's reassurance has also been much needed. Thank you all.

I have several big challenges in this project:

1)Squeezing lots of batteries wherever I can
2)Figuring out what to do with the ones left over
3)Connecting the battery to the controller
3a)Convincing the controller that the battery coolant pump (and other NiCad safety stuff) not being there is not a fault.
3b)Providing a low cell voltage warning to trigger the controller's limp mode
3bi)Using same warning to trigger full shut-off at a lower limit
4)Connecting the HiPower Intelligent Charger to the battery

The charger has 52 sense wires to give it overcharge info per cell. I asked for a 10amp/240volt charger so I can use it anywhere. The battery is 135kW so a full charge will take 90 hours. Once steps 1-4 are complete I will be planning a fast charger, but not yet.

Step 2 is still up in the air. A trailer is a possibility, but I will need to think of tow hitch mounting before designing the rear battery box. The original rear box prevents fitting of a standard Berlingo tow bar.

The battery is made up of 51s4p cells. HiPower have given me a balanced pack to allow the 4 parallel cells to be linked together. I could reduce the pack size to 600Ah by making it 51s3p which would reduce the weight below the Berlingo gross weight limit of 1800kg. I can't guess what range that would give me as the wh/mile figure will be high at this weight. The target range is 240 miles in the wet, in the dark, at 55mph. That's why I originally spec'd 800Ah.

Photos are on Flickr. You can see me trying out arrangements under the bonnet. I can fit 33 cells there, but not the controller as well. This is as far as I have got. I'd really like to get 51 cells under the bonnet or under the car. This represents one series string, and would mean another 51 (and another) would have to go inside the load bay. A single string is not enough to drive the car however, as the C rating is too low for full power current draw. I will dig out some figures for my next post. Each 51 cell 200Ah string is double the original capacity of the 27 100Ah NiCad cells (using nameplate figures).

I will stop my ramble for now, but I hope I have shown some of the issues this project is throwing at me.
Tim Crumpton


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