EV Design: Wind resistance, etc

Do you own or use a EV. Then this is a good place to discuss things.
marktime
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Postby marktime » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:29 pm

Just to add to the pool of evidence here is a plot of my Prius MPG over 2 and a bit years and about 45000 miles. (keeping spread sheets and making graphs is a Prius thing).

Image

My graph is not as smooth as Jerry's but I hope the same pattern is evident. To me (along with the notes in my speadsheet) it is almost like reading tree rings as a climate record.

Winter 06-07 we has snow and I was learning the car, April 07 was very mild (May 07 put 4 bikes on the roof rack and went on holiday) Winter 07-08 must have been milder, looks like we had one decent week in June 08! and so on.


MarkTime
Soft as Graphite, Hard as Diamond, Black as Coal & clear as CO2, It's a Carbon thing!

ChrisBarron
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Postby ChrisBarron » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:09 pm

marktime wrote:Just to add to the pool of evidence here is a plot of my Prius MPG over 2 and a bit years and about 45000 miles. (keeping spread sheets and making graphs is a Prius thing).

MarkTime


It's all good. But AFAIC until they make the Prius a plug-in it will get some negative attention soon.

Mid 2008 saw me get rid of my Peugeot 106 1500cc diesel, which would return over 60mpg if I drove particularly carefully, and I know there are new cars of higher performance which can also do 60+.

However, that old 106 was noisy and smelly, but it had done 260,000 miles so it had paid it's debt to ecosociety !

Of the hybrids I really 'get' the Insight, and still kick myself every time I think of the time I turned one down for £1800 (had a few problems but nothing beyond repair)....and now I have to read Peter P's messages and see his pictures.....sigh, it's like that girl I never asked to the disco and then a week later my best friend was with her....it could have been me..... cue the violins.....

marktime
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Postby marktime » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:41 am

Hi Chris, my intent was to demonstrate the winter / summer cycle, it just happens to be for a Prius because that's what I have data for.

It is certainly true that many / most diesels can out perform hybrids in the mpg stakes, what is dissapointing is that Honda and Toyota have worked alone in the hybrid field for so long and have had no real competion. Without some competition there is no great imperitive to advance the technology, after all the current range of hybrids is not about to save the world! They really should be the target to beat for the next gen of eco cars (of whatever fuel).

The one thing that I think hybrids do particularly well is to promote interest in electric vehicles, that's why I'm here!


MarkTime
Soft as Graphite, Hard as Diamond, Black as Coal & clear as CO2, It's a Carbon thing!

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Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:18 pm

MarkTime wrote:The one thing that I think hybrids do particularly well is to promote interest in electric vehicles, that's why I'm here!


I think that this is one of the main reasons that the likes of Toyota took the decision to invest so heavily in hybrid technology.

EVs have always been in a difficult situation. The public won't readily accept a completely new propulsion system without any real experience of it. The cost of components, like reliable, high capacity batteries and efficient brushless motor technology, won't come down without volume sales and the infrastructure needed to service and maintain EVs won't come about until there is a demand from the market.

Hybrids are a very useful stepping stone, as they are:

1) Raising public awareness of the benefits of electric power (I can't imagine anyone who has ever driven/ridden in a Prius failing to be impressed by "stealth mode"!).

2) Creating a high volume market demand for new battery, motor and controller technology.

3) Allowing garages to get up to speed with the nuances of working on high voltage, high current, electrical systems.

I think it will be much easier, in terms of public acceptability, to transition from a hybrid to a pure EV, than it would to make the leap from a pure ICE powered car to an EV. The majority of cars sold in the personal (not fleet) car market are very boring boxes that look pretty much the same. This is no accident, as lots of people hate to be seen to be different.

Jeremy

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qdos
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Postby qdos » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Jeremy wrote: The majority of cars sold in the personal (not fleet) car market are very boring boxes that look pretty much the same. This is no accident, as lots of people hate to be seen to be different.


Errr other than a company BMW 525 all my cars have been my own and they have all been VERY VERY different

If you want to see how different then all the ones on this page http://www.qdoscars.co.uk/about.htm oh and plus a Lotus Excel

I have to confess however to now owning a Nissan Primera and previously a couple of Sierra Estates but they were to carry my hang gliders on flying trips to and around The Alps
Oh the Lotus often had a hang glider on the roof too just to be that extra bit different ;) When the Primera is too costly to run I'll most likely go for a Citroen C1 Why? Becuse I think they are fantasticly quirky and different


Anyways now I'm right off thread So maybe we ought to get back to discussing what ever it was that started this topic. Wasn't it aerodynamics?

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Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:19 pm

To be honest, Kelvin, I suspect that many BVS members might be similar to you or I in not being that interested in "boring" cars! The car sales figures show that we're not typical though.

My own "car list" is similarly a bit oddball; several minis, including a Cooper S, a Clan Crusader, Reliant Scimitar, Capri 3000GT (!), Citroen GS, Marlin Roadster (two seat kit car), Renault 5 Gordini Turbo, Granada 2.8i, Peugeot 205 diesel, BMW 325i, Jaguar XJ-S, Hudson Mystic (single seat kit car),a couple of Pajeros, a Mercedes SLK and then a Prius.

Jeremy

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Postby arsharpe » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:14 pm

Jeremy wrote:I think it will be much easier, in terms of public acceptability, to transition from a hybrid to a pure EV, than it would to make the leap from a pure ICE powered car to an EV.


Funny you should say that as that is precisely how I came to EVs'.

Thinking was, "I am having so much fun in the Prius, why didn't I do this before. Ah it is because it is different. Oh right, what am I missing that is different from the Prius. Oh yes, what about an electric car ..."

marktime
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Postby marktime » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:56 pm

Jeremy, at a time when it is rare for BVS menbers to agree about anything :wink: I will spoil the moment and take issue with

The majority of cars sold in the personal (not fleet) car market are very boring boxes that look pretty much the same. This is no accident, as lots of people hate to be seen to be different.


In my view it is fleets that are homegenous, my Prius stands alone in the car park (despite some evangelising) the vast majority go for Honda Civics and Ford Mondeos. I find this extraordinary when a company car provides a risk free oportunity to try something new or radical. As a company car the Prius is a 'no brainer' as it pays for it's self and gives me cash back!! :D
Soft as Graphite, Hard as Diamond, Black as Coal & clear as CO2, It's a Carbon thing!

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Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:41 pm

I agree that fleets are homogeneous, but that's often to do with the economics of buying and operating a single make, single model, fleet, I thought.

One or two organisations are running small fleets of hybrids though. MOD has a number of Prius pool cars, for example, plus at least one taxi company, Green Tomato, runs an all-Prius fleet.

I can understand the reasons for fleet owners wanting same make and model fleets, but it seems that the majority of ordinary car owners also want something the same, or similar, to others. Personally I would much prefer something a bit different from everyone else.

Jeremy

ChrisBarron
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Postby ChrisBarron » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:16 pm

Jeremy wrote:I can understand the reasons for fleet owners wanting same make and model fleets, but it seems that the majority of ordinary car owners also want something the same, or similar, to others.

Jeremy


I think that must start when the TV advert begins with the line
"You don't want to be like everyone else, do you ? "

And then they proceed to give reasons to buy a car which means you will end up being the same as everyone else who doesn't want to be the same as the others.....it's probably never going to end !

I still hanker after a Lotus Talbot Sunbeam, just because they look about as boring as you can get <g> ..... just to be a bit different !


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