To rent or not to rent...

[aminorjourney]

As it's caused quite a stir I thought I would start a poll here.

Let's discuss the whole Th!nk thing with batteries. Now I know that some people are really aghast at the idea of renting batteries and others are very pro renting, so I thought I'd open it up in the battery thread.

As far as I'm concerned if I've just brought a new car I want the batteries to last as long as possible without getting any issues with them. Unlike the G-Wiz, which offers a one-year full replacement warranty, followed by a second year at a pro-rata (you pay a percentage of the cost for replacement batteries depending on how far through the second year you are) I'd rather pay a set fee every month and know that if anything at all goes wrong with the batteries I won't have to fork out any unexpected fees in order to keep going on the road.

I've experienced unexpected battery death a few times now and have recently had to fork out an additional £500 to replace 1/3 of my Lithium Ion batteries. Okay, so I have had a few month's warning that the batteries are dying, but I still have to find the extra money and then find time to replace them and do all the DIY stuff to get the batteries happy. I'd much rather pay someone a flat fee and know that they are keeping my car healthy, so that I can get on and earn the money doing the things I really enjoy - playing the oboe!

So let's open it up.

What does everyone think?

[qdos]

I'd only ever buy a car I owned totally and utterly complete I'd never consider a vehicle which I have to part rent. How do I know they are not going to start increasing the price per month or simply take their parts back ? Look what happened to the EV1

[MaryRCrumpton]

I think being able to pay monthly for renting the batteries will immediately make the whole thing more affordable for people, because paying up front for enough Lithium batteries to give you a decent range costs silly money. Some people will care enough to raise the money somehow, or be rich enough to just do it, but for most people I think renting the batteries is the most affordable option.

Having said that, I cannot see why a company couldn't offer a variety of options (from buying everything through to renting everything) so that all needs are catered for.

Mary.

[marktime]

This is an interesting topic that I don't think has been discussed in the open before.

There are several aspects to be considered, firstly the producers perspective might be that since there is a a posibillity of an expensive early life failure or user abuse (remember the producer is deaing with an unpredictable body called the general public) the option to monitor and regulate useage and servicing via a lease package is attractive. A sell an be dammed policy could end in bad publicity if a few vocal but non battery savvy users get burnt and kick up a stink.
Remember the early i-pod battery issues!!

That said if I could have found an original Pug 206 (I think that is the model that was done as a lease package) to buy outright I would probably be an EV owner now.

The g-Wiz style pro-rata deal has merit as there is a possibility of random battery failure at any time and the risk is shared.

Private lease deals are currently very popular in the conventional car market, you never really own the car but it has a notional trade in value however you can become tied to a single producer.


Sorry I can't vote, I'm undecided but you can see how I would look at the options however distorted my vision might be!!

MarkTime

[Peter Eggleston]

Unless you do a really high milage you do not save any money going electric and renting the batteries. In just a few months you have paid out enough money to have bought the batteries.
I too always want to own the whole vehicle outright.
Peter

[aminorjourney]

Interesting Peter,

This is probably where I differ from most people then as I do huge mileage in my EV on a yearly basis.

I'm also not into EVs for the financial benefits. I'm in it more for the environmental benefits from not relying on oil to run my transport. So for me, I'd rather pay for the reliability and quietness of an EV with managed batteries than I would for either a noisy petrol car, or an EV whose batteries could leave me in the stink.

Just think of how many EVS are in the marketplace today because the batteries have died. It's scary just how many EV owners just sell their vehicles on because they either fail to see the cost of batteries over the long term, or who didn't plan on the batteries failing and then realised they couldn't afford the replacement. I could get on my high horse about people expecting to pay £10,000 or less for an EV with the performance of a regular car and comparing list-price of both petrol and battery cars and then moaning that the EVs are more expensive to buy outright. Part of that cost is the battery pack. Leasing the battery hopefully helps reduce the overall cost of the vehicle purchase, meaning more people are likely to buy one, perhaps?

Obviously, the new budget announcements about high costs for gas-guzzling cars will mean that even with a rental payment and higher purchase cost an EV may still work out cheaper than a petrol car, but let's not fall into that terrible trap of trying to make EVs to a budget that is unrealistic. We just end up with rubbish EVs that ultimately can give EVs a bad name.

In the past two years I would have to say that 90% of all EVs I've seen for sale have duff batteries and are being sold for that very reason. Surely leasing the batteries means that the cars have higher retail value? Perhaps an option to buy out the batteries would be a good idea alongside an optional rental scheme then?

[ChrisB]

For myself its most defo a money thing, what bugs me is folk dont understand that batteries are like buying your fuel in bulk up front.
What I dont like about lease or battery rental is the fact I know that someone somewhere is making money out of me
The so called rental costs are not reasonable in my view.
If there was an option in the poll that said batteries that where leased at a reasonable cost , then I might vote for that option.

For me the main stumbling point is the whole "new" issue, as I would NEVER buy a "new" vehicle as its just not (in my opinion) a financially viable option as the huge losses that are endured with it leaving the forecourt are crazy. Anyone that can afford to burn money that fast has too much of it in my opinion
For myself spending any more than say 4 to 5000 pounds on transport is just mad. I have never spent any more and my Berlingo has been the most I've EVER spent on a vehicle (adding the cost of the spare berlingo to the orginal)

Vehicles are the biggest drain on anyones finances I would say, along with renting a house say, even with a mortage you have something that hopefully will be worth more in the long term where as a vehicle will almost certainly be worth less as the years go by

So for me its all down to cost, I want cheap unusual transport and the berlingo ticks these boxes, with that and my ageing veggie burning Rover tourer which I paid 1200 for 4 yrs ago now I have all my transport issued sorted for well under 5K

Its a good issue to discuss

ChrisB

[hyve]

Some time back I did the sums on the real cost of credit card interest and found that even 16% p.a. worked out to be about 7% at normal loan rates when you allow that your debt, and therefore interest, is reducing as you pay it back. Other loans charge interest on the whole ammount for the life of the loan, which means that although the rate may appear atttractive it works out more expensive over the term.

There are so many credit cards offering lower rates than this, or even 0% for the initial period, that it has to be an option for purchase of batteries, compared to the mark-up which a leasing co. will put on the price. So you get the best of both; ownership and easy payments which are also less than leasing. Agreed ?

[qdos]

As I only ever buy a car for cash. No I'm not in the least bit interested in renting them in any shape or form.

It would be interesting to see what sort of loan you can get to pay for a rental too.

It's a non starter for me

[Peter Eggleston]

I agree entirely with ChrisB. I would add that if duff batteries is the main reason for most second hand electric cars being sold, then this provides us with ideal opportunities to buy good cheap ev's that just need replacement batteries.
Peter