LiIon/LiFePo Cells Pricing

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timpootle
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Postby timpootle » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:59 pm

I don't know what sort of servicing a flat ZEBRA would need. As I understood it, a cool battery just needed re-charging to sort itself out, although I believe this takes a long time (maybe a day or two for a big pack).

I'm surprised to hear you have had people with ZEBRA packs in their cars to begin with, but lithium will always give you more capacity per weight and volume. Lifetime is still in question.

Which cars came with ZEBRA fitted?

I agree that both chemistries are useful. I wrote the same yesterday here.
Tim Crumpton

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3xe - electric cars
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Postby 3xe - electric cars » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:17 pm

timpootle wrote:I don't know what sort of servicing a flat ZEBRA would need. As I understood it, a cool battery just needed re-charging to sort itself out, although I believe this takes a long time (maybe a day or two for a big pack).

I'm surprised to hear you have had people with ZEBRA packs in their cars to begin with, but lithium will always give you more capacity per weight and volume. Lifetime is still in question.


I don't have any precise info about failrues, but typically they say: "battery didn't wake up - I will have to leave my car in service for few weeks AGAIN". They were a little bit disappointed.

timpootle wrote:Which cars came with ZEBRA fitted?

E.g. Fiat Panda, Renault Twingo - only for Swiss market.

timpootle wrote:I agree that both chemistries are useful. I wrote the same yesterday here (link)].

About the simultaneous career of different battery chemistries - we have had the same idea in similar time :) I didn't read that topic before :)

jonny
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Postby jonny » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:57 am

Zebra is 120Wh/kg.

Your looking at around 14% a day of power just to keep them warm, the case is quoted as 15C above ambient and heat loss around 90W. So its more suited to buses etc really.

The discharge creates heat and charging is endothermic so essentially it self heats as you use it not taking power from capacity.

the high temp means the battery isnt really degraded by the ambients.

If it goes cold they reckon you just heat it back up. Just dont cvharge it when cold and the salt is solid.

jonny
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Postby jonny » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:33 am

It was in the Merc A class aswell. :D And i assume the first batch of Zytek Smart EV's used ZEBRA?

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3xe - electric cars
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Postby 3xe - electric cars » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:53 am

jonny wrote:It was in the Merc A class aswell. :D And i assume the first batch of Zytek Smart EV's used ZEBRA?

Yes - you are right - I forgot about A-Class and Smart. I suppose you know the story of A-Class and why it has failed the elk-test in first models ?

For those who didn't know:
A-Class was a model for US market when in California Mercedes expected changes in law. There supposed to be a rule, that 2-3% new cars sold supposed to be EV.
Mercedes prepared the A-Class... build about 15 prototypes (ZEBRA Battery, 100 miles range)... and the law didn't change.
They have left a car model... so decision was: "lets put there a ICE engine and sell it this way".
They forgot, that prototypes had about 300 kg of batteries in floor (double floor -> "sandwich body"). Now the center of the weight was much higher - car was falling on elk test...
They have found a solution about it and put a lot of electronic to solve it...

Who wants to have converted A-Class EV with lithium batteries? It will be my next show car I suppose.


We are quite far from the main topic - LiFePO4 prices...
Everybody can get prices from me per mail or found here (we try to keep it updated):
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Last edited by 3xe - electric cars on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

jonny
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Postby jonny » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:57 am

I didn't know that!

Explains the situation quite well though!

BTW you have to heat the zebra before its charged with the external supply to power the heaters, then the onboard heater keep it warm whilst the car is idle, maybe thats why it didnt come back!.

Any charging may damage the cells, the salt isnt molten after all so you dont get the Na+ exchange across the alumina. 24hr to heat a cold battery back up though!


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