LiIon batteries - packing them together

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audia2ev
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LiIon batteries - packing them together

Postby audia2ev » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:06 am

Don't know how many of you have seen this guy's Honda S2000 conversion but it looks very neat. On his blog http://s2kev.blogspot.com/2009/01/batteries-arrive.html he mentions that:

They came pre-bound with nice aluminum end plates and handles to carry them. It's very important these cells stay bound while there is any charge on them.


Now I have Hi Powers, not ThunderSky, but notice that mine are slightly swelling. Any opinions on what he says? Should I build my packs so they are bound together? Or should one let them swell?

Simon

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timpootle
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Postby timpootle » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:20 am

HiPower also say you MUST clamp the cells in use. Mine came without anything, so I need to source some plates to fit the 200Ah cells.

I will try to find the relevant paragraph in the HiPower instructions for you.
Tim Crumpton

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Postby retepsnikrep » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:23 am

timpootle wrote:HiPower also say you MUST clamp the cells in use. Mine came without anything, so I need to source some plates to fit the 200Ah cells.

I will try to find the relevant paragraph in the HiPower instructions for you.


Interesting :shock: that was never mentioned with mine!!

They are installed unclamped, but very well secured and tight together in two blocks of 25, working fine for last couple of months, no sign of swelling as far as I can see.

40ah cells though, so quite small, perhaps this means case is rigid enough to provide the support for these smaller cells.
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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audia2ev
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Postby audia2ev » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:41 pm

All seems pretty clear. Seems more logical that they are clamped anyway, since they will connect better. Mine (50Ah) show a very slight swelling.

Simon

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Postby GregsGarage » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:09 am

I'm with you there Peter, Hipower also told me they don't require clamping but just found this on Sunday;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/2573671189/in/set-72157604137306905/

So I would say they must be clamped.

Greg

retepsnikrep wrote:
timpootle wrote:HiPower also say you MUST clamp the cells in use. Mine came without anything, so I need to source some plates to fit the 200Ah cells.

I will try to find the relevant paragraph in the HiPower instructions for you.


Interesting :shock: that was never mentioned with mine!!

They are installed unclamped, but very well secured and tight together in two blocks of 25, working fine for last couple of months, no sign of swelling as far as I can see.

40ah cells though, so quite small, perhaps this means case is rigid enough to provide the support for these smaller cells.
Greg Fordyce

Daewoo Matiz
http://www.evalbum.com/4191

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retepsnikrep
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Postby retepsnikrep » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:33 am

Just had a conversation on MSN with someone from Highpower, I pointed him to Gregs fire thread but asked the following.

Milo says:
Hello, Peter

Peter Perkins says:
hello

Milo says:
This is Milo from China Hipower, we are producing lifepo4 battery. I am wondering if you are interested in lithium battery?

Peter Perkins says:
I already have a highpower battery fitted to my car. I bought 50x40ah cells last summer

Peter Perkins says:
from the UK distributor

Milo says:
ok, performance good?

Peter Perkins says:
so far no problems with mine, but look at this thread for another UK buyer who was not so lucky.

Peter Perkins says:
http://batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/for ... php?t=1825

Milo says:
you are not telling me its Hipower cell?

Peter Perkins says:
They were highpower cells but we do not know the cause of the fire but it is not good

Peter Perkins says:
He bought them last year same as me but his were 100ah I think

Milo says:
thanks for the link ,i will check what happened. if you have questions about your cells, let me know.

Peter Perkins says:
The main question is do they need to be clamped/compressed or not? There was no mention of compression when we bought the cells last year. My old Thundersky cells did need compression.

Milo says:
it is not necessary. For better looking you can do that.

So there you have it, seems compression is not necessary. Hmm! Now who do we believe?
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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timpootle
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Postby timpootle » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:57 pm

I eventually found the email I was talking about.

From: David Cowperthwaite <d>
To: Tim Crumpton <tim>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:22:45 +0100
Subject: RE: FW: lithium berlingo

Hi Tim

HiPower have answered most of your questions
Sunny writes
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your kind email. Please see the following reply as per Tim's
questions:

Q3)Do cells need binding? how tight?
How to commission cells upon arrival (initial charge)? one-by-one or all
together?
A3)Cells need binding (connectors, iron bar, adhesive tape). We will bind the
batteries with different bindings according to different battery packs. We
will divide the full packs into several groups. Then tell you how to connect
them. For this one, we have the following questions:
1) Do you put the full battery pack in one place or several places? How much
battery do you put in such several places? How much space for such several
places? We need the specific information for this. As you know, we can
assemble the battery pack as per your requirements for the size.
2) Be sure to charge the new battery fully before using for the first time
.The battery will reach its max capacity after 3-5 times of full charging
and discharging.
So you'd better purchase the balance charger with battery pack as soon as
possible. Then we can send the battery pack together with the charger.

I sent this back to Dave last month. His response is below:
from David Cowperthwaite <d>
to Timothy Crumpton <timpootle>
date Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 7:17 PM
subject RE: Clamping cells together

Hi Tim unfortunately Sunny now has left Hi Power we are now dealing with Amy. Let me check out the <clamping> plates for you, Kind regards Dave

So now who do we believe? This idea that 'you can clamp the cells if you want them to look nice' doesn't sound right to me. I was copied into an email exchange between Amy from Hipower, Dave from TYCTrack, and our own audia2ev, where Amy said her technicians were saying just what milo said to you, Peter. I guess milo is the technician Amy was talking to.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:37 AM, David Cowperthwaite <d> wrote:

Hi Simon please find below the reply from Hi power hope this helps,
basically so long as the pack is secure you should be ok , your early reply
would be appreciated with some dimensions before and after Kind regards Dave

Hi Dave,
Nice day to you!

This is Amy from China Hipower New Energy Group.

It is my honor to follow up the business.

About the question you and Simon mentioned ,we check with our technician
and we'd like to reply to you as follows.

The shell of our battery is made up of plastic.

when charging or discharging,the battery may appear a slight swelling.,which
is normal.

it won't affect the good performance of the battery.

if you hope it looks nicer,you can clamp the battery pack in moderate way
and provent overexerting.

in addition,if some clear photos and more relative information (such as how
many cells appear swelling,any other bad phenomenon ?etc)

could be provided ,it will be better.Then we will check further.

Thanks and best regards

Amy Zhao

In my mind, LiFePO4 still rely on a Solid Electrolye. Bending of the plates MUST induce a higher internal resistance, which can't be good.
Tim Crumpton

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qdos
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Postby qdos » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:22 am

Peter,

Bear in mind that Milo is in China so you've got pigeon English to take into account. I've spoken with HiPower many times in the past and you have to realise their English is not wonderful. I'm pretty sure Milo is Sales not Technical too.

Basically I'd clamp it's not worth the risk not to in my humble opinion


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