House batteries

[qdos]

I think it's all too clear these days that banks and financiers just use smoke and mirrors and basically you can't trust a word they say. The only thing that really interests me is what actually IS available and how much for. What's reported in the FT has very little interest for me at all. Now the New Scientist and the likes I tend to take a bit more interest in as it's a bit more factual and not just hocus pocus

This is all off the plot of the thread now so sorry folks back to battery powered houses ...........

[JonSpence]

This is all off the plot of the thread now so sorry folks back to battery powered houses ...........

Well returning to the subject, I visited www.homepower.com and it would seem that their lead article is free to download. It details Mr Blank's (sorry it is his name) home PV system. It would seem that in the delay between the system being designed and the panels being purchased in 2005 (less than a year) the size of module he could get for his $ increased by almost 10%.

His system produced 358 Kwh per month over the first 11 months and by the time that the article was written had produced over 4 Mwh. Not cheap though, he did pay $22,878 before any subsidies. (No batteries, he pumps the power into the grid)

Now I know that the same system wouldn't produce anywhere near as much power in sunny Manchester, but shall we agree that it's just a bit more than a portable TV and a couple of car headlight bulbs worth.

The only thing that really interests me is what actually IS available and how much for.

Then for goodness sake just follow Nigel's link!
Here is what HE says.
I have a great special offer if you buy two of the Unisolar 64 panels together. The price is £499.98 delivered to the UK mainland. That's only £249.99 each!

Guess what you can buy the stuff today if you want to. All I claimed was that it was getting cheaper, and it has been.

[Night Train]

OK, Sorry to those who would like to see the EV thesis but the one on house to grid has been accepted by the panel I had to present to.

I will now be investigating house storage batteries so I can submit my thesis in July.

The battery debate will effect EVs too as, apart from mass and volume, the the requirements are fairly similar, large capacity, depth of discharge, long cycle life, low cost, low maintenance, ease of renewal and recycling at end of life. Also smart metering to get the best financial value from trading energy with the grid

[GregsGarage]

The house batteries could be fitted in your garage, inside your EV! Then you gain dual usage from your batteries, trading power from the grid and powering your EV. With some sort of smart metering it won't matter were the EV is plugged into, house, work or public charging point, as long as it can communicate with the grid to trade energy at beneficial rates.

You might find that batteries fixed to a house might not be very cost effective, for a grid connected house, without putting them to use as a power source for an EV as well. The opposite side of the equation is that EV batteries are very expensive and in reality are only used for 1-2 hours a day which is also not very cost effective.

I also ran across a project that was putting old battery packs into buildings, the idea being that the packs may no longer be able to deliver the high currents demanded of an EV, any more, but still have usable capacity. Sorry I have lost the link. Also search for V2G or vehicle to grid. Same idea as what you are proposing.

Good luck with your thesis.

[Night Train]

Thanks, part of the thesis will be to see how it might work and what is going to be the best way forward to using renewables, storage and the grid together.

[qdos]

The house batteries could be fitted in your garage, inside your EV! Then you gain dual usage from your batteries, trading power from the grid and powering your EV. With some sort of smart metering it won't matter were the EV is plugged into, house, work or public charging point, as long as it can communicate with the grid to trade energy at beneficial rates.

Trouble with this is you'll cycle the batteries more and consequently have a lesser life on the road with the batteries effectively putting cost per mile up considerably

You might find that batteries fixed to a house might not be very cost effective, for a grid connected house, without putting them to use as a power source for an EV as well. The opposite side of the equation is that EV batteries are very expensive and in reality are only used for 1-2 hours a day which is also not very cost effective.

I also ran across a project that was putting old battery packs into buildings, the idea being that the packs may no longer be able to deliver the high currents demanded of an EV, any more, but still have usable capacity. Sorry I have lost the link. Also search for V2G or vehicle to grid. Same idea as what you are proposing.

Much more sensible approach here to use the batteries from the EV when their performance has dropped in the house. They could also be set up to make fast charging possible on the EV too

[GregsGarage]

Trouble with this is you'll cycle the batteries more and consequently have a lesser life on the road with the batteries effectively putting cost per mile up considerably

If there was no financial gain from a grid connected battery pack then this would be true, and there would be no point in doing it. It also is probably not something that could be done cost effectively on an individual scale.

But there could be a potential market if done on a large scale. The power grid requires balancing as demands change during the day. Also micro generation and renewable energy cause problems for the grid because they generate power when it is available, not when it is needed. So while there would be extra cycling of the batteries, potentially the cost per mile could be lower due to extra income generated by a grid connected pack, or maybe you lease the pack at a subsidized rate instead of buying it outright. This option spreads the cost over the life of the pack and could make EVs much more attractive to more people.

[qdos]

Have a look at Project Better Place as this is part of the thinking behind that only as it's Israel there's strategic reasons for it too

[GregsGarage]

I have seen Better Place, they are also launching in Denmark, were the ability to store wind power (around 18% of Denmarks power) at night and relaese it during the day is another of there goals.

It will be interesting to see how they do.

[qdos]

Gordon Brown was said to have given a green light to it here too but frankly I don't believe a word he's said he just goes back on it a few weeks later saying he made a mistake. At least that's novel for a PM

Hmmm sorry back on thread me thinks ought to be the direction and this thesis