Electrical Vehicle Campaign

General BVS related area
User avatar
aminorjourney
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:24 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Postby aminorjourney » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:46 am

kelvin,

Yup. You're right. But I was referring to the oil off American coasts. Its estimated that there is enough oil there for a few years' worth of America's current oil consumption. They are proposing a few billion to drill for oil which would only last a few years!

But yes. We need to concentrate on getting car companies, big and small, to get EVs out there for the public to use. only then can you have an action policy for getting off oil.
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

EVangelist and Media Relations Coordinator, www.ZeroCarbonWorld.org
Host, www.transportevolved.com

http://about.me/aminorjourney/bio

User avatar
qdos
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:26 pm
Location: Dorset
Contact:

Postby qdos » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:53 am

aminorjourney wrote:But yes. We need to concentrate on getting car companies, big and small, to get EVs out there for the public to use. only then can you have an action policy for getting off oil.


Seems you posted this before I'd finished editing my last post (go to bottom of page 1), I see you're out with that stick again.

shelleywalsh
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:26 am

Postby shelleywalsh » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:59 pm

I'm sorry to have invaded our private techy space. I can see I have come to the wrong place. For what it's worth I have an electric car, and was on Nikki's private mailing list before she was, and remember her introduction. I just haven't been very active recently.

Bush wants to spend money on sucking every ounce of oil from the ground, money that could be spent on incentives for EV production. I thought I was expressing views that people in this group would be sympathetic with, but I guess I was wrong. I wouldn't have minded some disagreement with details, but this out and out mass flame was not at all what I expected. It seems you people are only interested in EVs from the technical side, so I will leave you to geek out together.

And by the way, as a whole I too think carrots are better than sticks, but it is worth noting that EVs didn't really take off in India to get Reva going until they banned petrol cars in certain city centers.

Of course none of you are concerned with this sort of thing, because you are all capable of making your own cars. Excuse me for living and not having that technical expertise.

Happy geeking.

User avatar
geekygrilli
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Postby geekygrilli » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:52 pm

I think I take offence to the over use of 'geek' as a derogatory term! :) Yes, I am a geek, but I also have some social apptitude and awareness of my surroundings! So tarring all members of the BVS with one foul swoop of your streotyping brush seems a bit harsh!

I have read your blog, and applaud your courage in going on an all out one (wo)man offensive to change the world. However, I am inclined to agree with people's comments that the infrastructure you suggest is over simplistic and ideal. To expect a world and soceity that revolves around oil to change in just 10 years is optimistic.
Even if all new vehicles in 10 years time were powered by electricity, the power needs to be produced somewhere, somehow - oil, gas and coal. And this will be the case for a long time.
Its far easier for an individual to buy and electric car than a government to change its policy on power generation, forcing companies to find envirnmenally friendly alternatives that will not only need the capacity to produce 100% of our domestic and industrial requiremnets, but in addition, the power for our travelling needs too; which by some figures I have seen is a further 35% for domestic applications only.

Actually, that would be an interesting study - if all vehicles in the UK were electric, what would the extra pull be on our power stations - I guess at least a two fold increase? Then if all that power were from renewable sources, how big and how many wind farms, solar arrays, hydroelectric stations and NUCLEAR POWER stations would we need?

But this is on a macro level, maybe we should be thinking micro, self-sustanance?

By the way, I have made my own EV through re-using and recycling an old ICE car and forklift parts which would have otherwise been scraped. But I am also aware of the damage caused by digging up the world for the lead and copper involved in the production of the batteries and cables, and the fuel costs of transporting these components half way around the world.

My oh my, and geeky engineer with a heart. How very strange!

:wink:

User avatar
aminorjourney
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:24 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Postby aminorjourney » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:11 pm

Shelly,

it's absolutely okay to have different opinions. By the way, I too take exception to being called a techy geek when it comes to EVs. I'm a consumer. I want to drive clean green vehicles. But as with so many other things I think energy can be best used to effect change by making sure that those with the money (big businesses) make steps towards making sure those of us without big money can live in a green and eco-friendly way.

I am sorry if I offended you, but I hope you realise that while I share with you a hatred for a certain president I don't feel like blaming a whole country for it. Remember the others who didn't vote for him. Remember Google's Rechargeit.org project. That's the way we make change. Positive re-enforcement, not militancy. :)

I hope you stick around. A little controversy and argument is good :) It's what makes society fun.
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

EVangelist and Media Relations Coordinator, www.ZeroCarbonWorld.org
Host, www.transportevolved.com

http://about.me/aminorjourney/bio

shelleywalsh
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:26 am

Postby shelleywalsh » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:42 pm

aminorjourney wrote:I am sorry if I offended you, but I hope you realise that while I share with you a hatred for a certain president I don't feel like blaming a whole country for it.
Who said anything about blaming the whole country. I'm from the US myself, dual national now. You are assuming a lot. I wanted to find a way to march in solidarity with those there who were probably protesting against him. As an American, I was feeling helpless being so far away. If I wasn't concerned about the carbon emissions of it, I would have hopped on the next flight to join any protesters that were no doubt protesting there. For once in history the US seems to have more leftists and activist than this dead country has.

I have nothing against you for being a techy. I only resent the fact that I am being assumed to be an unwelcome nutcase invading your little private techy group, because I haven't yet established myself with your elite geek clique.

As to the 10 years, it's only based on the link that somebody either from this group or the email group posted, namely the Israeli project. And by the way, as to extra electricity, Shai Agassi claims it would only take 6% increase over 10 years. Perhaps that's a lie that you people know better than, but if so you might do me the courtesy of poking holes in his line.

User avatar
aminorjourney
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:24 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Postby aminorjourney » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:34 pm

I think we all got off on the wrong foot. I appologise for my part in this. I've been working solidly for several weeks now and I'm rather ratty and more than exhausted. I hope you can forgive me for jumping down your throat!

In addition to my humble pie, perhaps you'd like to post a hi so we can get to know you a bit better! We're a nice lot really underneath :)
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

EVangelist and Media Relations Coordinator, www.ZeroCarbonWorld.org
Host, www.transportevolved.com

http://about.me/aminorjourney/bio

User avatar
Peter Eggleston
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Tyne Valley Northumberland

Postby Peter Eggleston » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:53 pm

Hi Shelley
Please do not take offence because of the views of the 3 BVS members who have replied to you so far. There are hundreds of us, all with different views. Personally I like the idea of being a geek, but I would not like to be called a nerd. I do remember your posts on the ev disscusion site in the past.
I have very strong views on this topic and intend to post a more in depth account of in the near future, so watch this space.
Peter

JonSpence
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:05 pm
Location: Rochdale

Postby JonSpence » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:13 am

geekygrilli wrote:Actually, that would be an interesting study - if all vehicles in the UK were electric, what would the extra pull be on our power stations - I guess at least a two fold increase? Then if all that power were from renewable sources, how big and how many wind farms, solar arrays, hydroelectric stations and NUCLEAR POWER stations would we need?


I'm a fan of the renewable sector and own shares in both electricity companies and wind turbine builders, however....

There is not a chance of providing the entire of our current electric (not energy) demand from renewable sources let alone our transport demands. Transport wouldn't double TOTAL demand, but it would significantly increase peak demand.

There were 27 million cars (ignoring HGV's) on the road in 2006 by DVLC statistics. Assuming that they were all plugged in at the same time and drew about 13A then you're talking 81GW. You would have to assume an extra 81,000 wind turbines (because you seldom get more than 30% utilisation) or 20 coal fired plants the size of DRAX while they were plugged in.

However that pails into insignificance besides what would be required in terms of battery material. Many here are fans of lithium compounds. FORGET IT. Not in that quantity. Indeed it's difficult to identify a battery chemistry that we would have the resources for (maybe lead). I'm afraid that we would have to look at a transport model that didn't require batteries, ie electric trams and little or no private transport. Either that or it's fuel cells and problems of hydrogen storage (don't get me started on that subject).

It's sad when the figures don't stack up how you want them to. Of course non of the above prevent us working at reducing our reliance on fossel fuels.
I just don't think that the 10 year target to achieve oil free transport is possible without HUGE changes.

shelleywalsh
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:26 am

Postby shelleywalsh » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:42 am

Peter Eggleston wrote:Hi Shelley
Please do not take offence because of the views of the 3 BVS members who have replied to you so far. There are hundreds of us, all with different views.
I'm fine. It's cool. :-) I was just a bit shocked at what seemed like an overnight mass flame. I got a more sympathetic response from Norman Baker. (Lib Dem shadow transport)

But thanks, and we're fine.


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests